David Pakman: Robin Koerner is founder and publisher of www.WatchingAmerica.com. He writes
for The Huffington Post and also started the Blue Republican movement, which is asking
Democrats and independents to register Republican for one year to support Ron Paul in the primaries.
Thanks for joining us, Robin.
Robin Koerner: Good to be with you, David.
David: I want to dig into this, because I don't know whether I agree with you or not
that this is a good idea. First of all, I guess we should get out on the table, are
you, independent of whether it makes sense as strategy for Democrats and independents,
you are a Ron Paul supporter, right? You like Ron Paul.
Koerner: Yeah, I do... yeah, now I am a Ron Paul supporter. I definitely class myself
as that, although I would say, as someone who actually supported Obama, I think even
if I hadn't gone the full way to Ron Paul, I actually don't see any good reason why a
Democrat would not want to try and influence the Republican nomination to make sure Ron
Paul wins it. But obviously that also is a personal opinion.
David: Yeah, well, tell me why, because I have... I have my thoughts, and we'll get
to... we can look at it point by point, but why... what is your sense of why a Democrat
would want Ron Paul to win the Republican nomination? And maybe the presidency, I don't
know if you're going even that far.
Koerner: Well, personally, I'm going that far, and the... I think, you know, the idea
of the Blue Republican movement is to go that far. The reason... if you think back to the
massive, you know, upswell of support for Obama, what the reasons were at the time,
the reasons were... there were many, but top of the list was the fact that Americans were
killing innocent people in countries that don't threaten us, and that we had a neocon
administration that was taking down in short order the basic protections of the Bill of
Rights. And we also had cronyism, a lot of it. I don't know if you remember, we were
all talking about Halliburton and these no-bid contracts and suchlike.
And then we were offered the presidency of Hope, and I was hoping that these issues that
are important to me, and I think to many progressives, you know, basic... and we're talking human
rights and life, I mean, there really are no basic... more basic issues, I don't think,
for progressives, that these would be dealt with somewhat in an Obama administration,
but now we see, again, in my opinion, that Obama isn't even Bush light, he's Bush plus.
So, I mean, for example, we have the extension of the PATRIOT Act, you know, we're still
starting wars in foreign lands from which we are not threatened, and we have a kind
of corporate cronyism that, you know, that makes Bush look like an amateur, except this
time, it's all Goldman Sachs and the boys at JP Morgan. So...
David: You're not wrong, per se, on any of those things. I don't know that the cronyism
we see now makes what Bush did looks like child's play. But the thing is, to go to this
idea of invading nations which aren't a threat to us, like Ron Paul, I was against the invasion
of Iraq, but I think the fact that... the idea that it's a means to an end doesn't really
play that well with me, nor with a lot of other progressives I talk to. In other words,
the reasons Ron Paul was against going into Iraq are because of an extreme right-wing
isolationism ideal, which I think that even if it gets us to the same conclusion on Iraq
is not going to put someone... he is not going to be in agreement with me on many other issues
that relate to trade, import/export, other issues... it's hard for me to imagine that
that's the reason, because he's the anti-war Republican, for progressives to support him.
Koerner: Well, it's one reason. I mean, it's as important but no more important than civil
rights, and, you know, the fact that we need to reestablish the Bill of Rights in this
country. But I...
David: Well, wait a second, hold on a second, though, Ron Paul is anti-Civil Rights Act.
He says it violated the Constitution and reduced individual liberty. He says it did not even
help at all to improve racial harmony. It's hard to find people on the left who believe
that, Robin.
Koerner: But do you... OK, do you know why he said that? Do you know what it was specifically
about the Civil Rights Act that he has a problem with?
David: He says it violated the Constitution.
Koerner: Well, true, but do you know in what... what his main concern about that legislation
was?
David: Well, tell me.
Koerner: Well, as far as I can see from what he said about it, and I would urge all of
your viewers, listeners to actually look at what Ron Paul says about civil rights, because
if you put this in the context, he is the... I mean, I think he's the most robust civil
rights candidate that we have an option to vote for.
He is concerned... well, and I should make the obvious connection, that one of... the
main reason for that is precisely because he is a constitutionalist, which is, you know,
that chunk of law in which American civil rights are protected, but yeah, I mean, that's
obvious, but it needs to be said.
Ron Paul is very much against any kind of discrimination by the state. What he was concerned
with in that legislation, as far as I understand it, and I cannot speak for him, is that once
you start telling people what they have to do with their private property, you've conceded
a principal where you have given a power to government that it should not have.
And it might be quite benign if you concede that principal to, say, if you own a business,
you have to let people of, let's say, any color into your business and provide services
equally, which of course is a goal that we all agree on. I mean, I think you'd have to
be kind of a nasty person to not think that's a good thing. People should not be...
David: Yeah, well, I mean, this is the Rand Paul argument that he got into with Rachel
Maddow, is it not?
Koerner: Right, but I believe, and again, you'll have to go back to Ron Paul's own words,
because I'm not Ron Paul and I am not authorized to speak for him, but as far... you know,
when I put this issue in the context of all of the things that he has spoken about in
civil rights, I think this for him is a government overstepping its bounds into private life
issue. He was very clear about legislation that limits... or, actually, prohibits any
kind of discrimination by government.
So I mean, but this is the thing about Ron Paul, what happens often is his conclusion
gets quoted without the broader principals that he is applying to get there.
David: I totally understand that. And again, I'm not trying to get into a discussion of
my personal opinion of whether I like Ron Paul or not, my argument is I just don't really
agree with the-- with your idea that this is somebody progressives could even have any
remote chance of getting behind by switching to the Republican Party for a year to...
Let me give you just one other example, just to throw something else out here. He's a booster
of the Constitution Party, OK, which has a Christian reconstructionist platform. He occasionally
appears at events sponsored by the John Birch Society, which is the segregationist, right-wing
organization that's closely aligned with the religious right. Again, my personal opinion
notwithstanding, I can't imagine any progressives are going to get behind that.
Koerner: Well, if you're saying and therefore Ron Paul is of the religious right, I would
say that you're just wrong. I mean...
David: I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that, what I'm saying is I can't imagine progressives
switching party to support a guy that is against the Civil Rights Act for a number of reasons
which you mentioned and which I did...
Koerner: But he's completely... he is more pro-civil rights than anybody else we have.
I mean, if you are... if you're genuinely interested in civil rights...
David: Yeah.
Koerner: ... for example, the fact that we're locking up masses of blacks but not masses
of whites for drug offenses, just to take one example, which other candidate is dealing
with that? I mean, if you want to actually make an argument with civil rights, I mean,
that's great, because I would just say everybody go listen to 20 YouTube videos about everybody
running right now, and let's come back and talk about who the real civil rights presidential
candidate is.
David: OK, but Robin, I'm not saying Ron Paul is of the religious right, but I'm saying,
again, your argument that progressives and independents should support him, they are
not going... none of the ones I know are going to get behind anyone who appears at events
sponsored by the John Birch Society. It's not... individually, none of these things
are pushing them over the edge, it's just taken altogether, you see what I'm saying?
He's anti-Social Security, for example.
Koerner: Well, David, I would say... I would say you have to look at a man's platform and
his voting record and his actions, in Ron Paul's case, over 30 years. And if you're
going to deny all of that based on the other people who support him, I mean, if we're going
to judge politicians by the people at the fringes who like bits of their message, then,
you know, let's all go home, because we can't vote for anybody.
David: Well, you know, Robin, I wish we had more time, Robin. What I think I... my position
on this is, if progressives and independents want to support someone that has no chance
of winning, I think there's other people they would support before Ron Paul.
Koerner: Oh, well, you see, that's... I wrote... my last article on Huffington Post was just
called "Ron Paul Can Win". And it was a kind of historic look at political face changes
in different nations, you know, mass transitions. I don't know that Ron Paul will win, but obviously,
you know, if you're saying that he can't, I mean, if you start from that point, again,
there's no point in even having a discussion, is there?
David: I'm... no, the discussion is worthwhile, I'm just saying he won't win. That's just
my take. We'll see what happens. We will see what happens.
Koerner: Well, I... you know, I don't know what bit of divine knowledge you're plugged
into that I'm not, but I am not a fortune teller, you know, I can't tell... I'm not
a divine... I can't tell the future.
David: Right before... right before God told Michele Bachmann that the hurricane was because
of too much spending, he told me Ron Paul wasn't going to win.
Koerner: Well, you know what? That's the reason to get Ron Paul on the ticket, because the
rest of them, as you've just implied and I agree with you, are terrifying.
David: All right, Robin Koerner, founder and publisher of www.WatchingAmerica.com, check
out his writing on Huffington Post. Maybe you'll become a Blue Republican. Email me
if you like or don't like this idea, david@davidpakman.com. Thanks, Robin.
Koerner: Thank you, David. I appreciate it.
David: OK, take care.
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