What's it been like going into work?
Knowing you have raised these
serious concerns and complaints,
and knowing now your supervisors are very
much aware of what you're doing and.
That was a little awkward,
I would imagine. Really not for me.
I think anyone who knows me and knows my
character knows that I've always been.
Outspoken for what was right and righteous.
But it was it was awkward.
I wish that I wasn't forced
to be put in this position.
But when I got to work,
I was actually met with a lot
of support from a lot of people,
certainly on the side.
And then. I just.
Do what I've done for the
last 24 years and that's.
Be the best representation
for this department and for
my purpose in this department.
For the citizens of Denver. Do
you like your job? Do you love your job?
I absolutely love my job.
What do you love about it?
I think that sometimes. A person is.
Extremely fortunate enough to be called
to a profession versus just having a job.
I can tell you that they probably don't
even pay me for half the things that I do.
I feel phone calls on my days off.
I go to events on my days off.
Just because.
Because I'm invited.
Because the community trusts me.
They need to see me there.
They need to see someone who looks
like them there in this uniform,
or they need to.
Have a conversation with
someone who they trust.
That would be an authentic conversation
about whatever the issue is,
he said. People need to see
someone that looks like them.
There's not a lot of people that
look like you in your department.
It's not. There's not.
You know, sadly, certainly we're
we're trying to change that,
but it's not and if you understand
and look at the history of the
institution of policing and between.
You know their actions and communities
of color, you would understand that.
And I can tell you that we are just
beginning to legitimately make some
amends and reconcile some of the issues
that this institution that was built on,
on racism and actually sexism has put
in place to hold down these communities.
So we have to make things right and the
institution of policing has started that,
that that process, but there are still.
Casualties that are happening even
though progress is being made. Do
you see yourself as one of those casualties?
I do. I do see myself and I see others who.
Were perhaps not treated well as the
others who were perhaps forced out
before they really wanted to leave.
I see others who were not allowed in.
Let's go back to September last year
at that women's collective meeting.
When you saw that memo and read what
these what these women had experienced,
what was your initial reaction
when you read all of those
instances and all of those words?
I was actually shocked.
I actually couldn't believe it.
That those things were. Happening.
Because we were, in my opinion,
making so many good strides in.
This field you know.
You know, some of the ones that were
certainly extremely concerning with me.
Was one where.
A supervisor or or another person
apparently knew of of this.
Woman's trauma.
And then almost immolated
it as if to reactivate it,
and I wonder.
How devastating that was to her.
And you're talking about the
example where the person, like,
went to choke the woman. Yes. Yeah.
A lot of times we hide and
we excuse inappropriateness.
Disrespect insubordination.
And even violations in jokes.
In in things that we expect people
to not be so sensitive about.
That was absolutely inappropriate.
And that's why.
The institution of policing needs to change,
regardless of who's at the helm of it.
It's the institution that we're
fighting and it's the institution
of policing that we're asking for.
The federal investigators
to look at with my case.
In that meeting, you called
for an investigation into what
all these women had described.
And what was that met with in the
moment that was met with applause.
You said it was,
but later on what was that that with
initially it was you know Katie
I I looked around and you would
think that in the room where.
Everyone should be thinking.
And and I don't know if they were
pretty much the same thing that I was.
And that is how affecting those things
were those for those women to recount.
I mean, there were tears.
At that moment.
Those ladies who were courageous in
bringing forth that in, you know,
reliving those traumas and
bringing them back to the surface.
They needed to know that someone was
going to make sure or was going to try
to make sure it didn't happen again.
I felt that's what they needed to hear.
But after that meeting,
when you continue to push for for
those concerns to be looked into.
What was that met with from your department?
You know, the Denver Police Department
is not like any other Police Department.
You know, we always try to hide.
Our issues, you know,
in processes and different things.
And. No one knew what was going on.
So no one knew what was going on,
so we had no idea if.
If those people who were
allegedly committing.
Those unsolicited acts.
If they were continually doing them.
To someone else or to the same people,
we don't know if the women
were subject to retaliation.
Wet speaking out eventually you say led you
to this performance improvement plan. That
as well as other things.
I was speaking out long before that for our
diversity and and minority hiring issues.
I was very outspoken and and called
out what I felt was a lot of false
narratives around why we can't recruit
minority applicants. How much?
Efforts we were putting into recruiting
minority applicants and I I saw that
there was a disconnect and I saw that
there was a false narrative being
driven and so I was outspoken with that
and challenging people on that and
people don't like to be challenged and.
My calling out that,
in addition to my constantly saying,
hey, this women's collective,
where's the accountability?
I think both those things
equally led to this.
This attempt to slander.
My reputation with this unsubstantiated.
You know, improvement plan.
What? What? What did Commander W lead
you to believe you were being put on
a performance improvement plan for?
Well, it was. It was a very short.
A conversation that I had
with him and actually for.
Him to have been my direct supervisor,
we didn't have much communication.
Which I thought was incredible, but.
It was. Because of my outspokenness
about the the diversity issues
and the equity plans and the
the minority issues that.
He seemed to take.
Offense to so when this performance plan.
Came about. I was incredibly
caught off guard because I had.
I had not had much communication with him,
although he was my direct supervisor.
And that led with.
Him saying that people, I don't.
He never did say who these people are,
these peers.
It appeared that these were people who
worked in the Police Department and also
in the Department of Public Safety.
Went on to categorize me as threatening,
demeaning, aggressive, violent.
And a couple other things I I
don't remember at the time. And.
To this day it is still unsubstantiated
and at that time I said what?
I was caught off guard.
Of course now. I can tell you this.
Whenever there is a.
Outspoken black woman in a in an environment,
in an institution. That is.
Based on on class and based on power,
and policing is about power.
Power and position and privilege.
If you don't know your place.
These stereotypical.
You know, allegations are oftentimes used,
especially for black women.
To to slander them and to
almost encourage discontent.
With them, and and oftentimes for the
purpose of hiding the mistreatment.
That they have against them
or that they're subjected to.
So it's it's not surprising, you know,
whenever a black woman is is authentic.
Unapologetic.
These these allegations come up
someone's fragility is is is
affected when these slanderous,
unsubstantiated words always use.
To to paint them.
As being. You know, noncompliant,
as being uncooperative,
as being someone who's not working
collaboratively and all these
things that are oftentimes untrue.
At this same time, you said that
you were pulled off of some of your
citywide impact duties and given
more patrol assignments, and you felt
that was also a retaliation method.
But yes, I saw some, some,
you know, separations from some
groups that I've been a part of.
You know, some minimizing of my impact,
some silencing of my of my voice.
You know, in theory, now,
oftentimes I would request it.
By certain communities or certain groups.
But yeah, I saw that shift and it bothered
me and and we I tried to address it.
And it was just to no avail.
To no avail. And I can tell you,
Katie, that most of the problems,
certainly in my opinion.
In. Organizations where?
The isms happen.
Discrimination, sexism,
racism or what have you.
It's the result of a few things.
Certainly, in my opinion,
that's a lack of policies
and procedures in place.
Or if you do have those policies
and procedures in place.
A lack of enhance to those
policies and procedures in place.
Do you think it's the lack
of adherence in this case?
In Denver Police Department's case?
Absolutely. We've we've long
suffered with a lack of adherence
consistently with different policies
and procedures. Because if.
We have policies and procedures and
expectations without with our language,
without behavior.
Certainly while we're wearing
this Denver police uniform.
Why would someone have the audacity
to do those things that were
highlighted in that women's collective?
Because they knew that regardless,
if we had those systems in place,
those policies in place, they knew that.
There was a disconnect with the
accountability piece or they were going
to be allowed to shift the narrative,
which we're very good at,
at driving a narrative.
So. Oftentimes,
these issues are a result of people
with their personal agendas who use.
Who sometimes uses the workplace systems?
Umm.
In a negative way to affect
some personal vendetta.
Against a person.
And because the system.
Doesn't have processes in
place for accountability and
adherence and oversight,
and sometimes outside oversight
because oftentimes we excuse a
lot of stuff we're too familiar.
We're ancestor, or sometimes.
Things are allowed.
But if you have systems in place,
and we do. And if you have
policies in place, and we do.
And these harms and these
violations are still happening.
It's because there's no one there to ensure.
Adherence to these policies
equitably for everyone,
and also accountability.
For when you don't adhere to those policies,
and that's why you have the audacity
of people to do these awful things
in 2021 in a workplace environment.
What finally led you to
the point where you said?
I'm gonna file a federal discrimination
lawsuit against my own department.
Yeah, so when I saw. That. The system.
Was going to allow. In my opinion.
Someone to manipulate it?
Without. Quantification.
Without substantiated proof.
When I saw that that was going to be
allowed to affect. My reputation.
Which I'm very sensitive about.
To affect my legacy in this department.
All because of the need to control
a black woman and put them in
their place and to silence their
voice when I saw that the system.
Was gonna allow that.
I knew I had to do something.
That's why we're challenging the system,
the institution of policing,
not particular people in
charge of it right now.
Those things may change.
It's the institution
that's allowed to protect.
The institution.
What do you hope? Is the outcome of this.
Well, I can tell you that by me doing this.
Minority officers and women
are going to be much safer.
In the Denver Police Department.
You're still going to work every day?
How has your situation changed?
Has how how you're being treated
in your department changed?
You know we will see. We would see.