- There are so many types of E Bike motors to choose from.
But it's crucial you get it right because it's gonna be
(mumbles) on the right dynamic,
and the performance on the trail.
So today we're gonna talk about the different types of
motor and which one you might wanna choose.
(futuristic music)
So what motor do you choose, now Bosch, Shimano, Brose,
Rocky Mountain, Panasonic, Yamaha
all have their individual motors
and they all have their certain characters.
It's more than just power here
that we're gonna be talking about.
What I also wanna make clear from the start is
we're talking pedal assist, not throttle assist.
Talking mountain bike, not motor bike.
(futuristic music)
There are three main types of E bike motor.
The first one is hub mounted, so that can be mounted in the
front hub or the rear hub and that's
where the drive comes from.
The disadvantage of them is that they affect the suspension
quite considerably and they're found
mostly on hard tails or shopping bikes.
The second type of unit is a bolt on system.
Now these are custom fit to a standard mountain bike.
They tend to be a little bit heavier
than a hub or a mid drive unit,
and also you need to carry the battery in a backpack.
It's the kinda system that Martyn Ashton used
when he did he trip to Whistler last year.
The third type of motor is a central, or mid drive unit.
Now the benefit of these motors is they're smaller
and more compact which allows the frame designers
to make the geometry closer to a normal mountain bike.
Today, we're going to be focusing
our attention on these mid drive units.
It's also worth noting that they're restricted
to 25 kilometres an hour depending on the country.
So before we get into the nitty gritty of E bike motors,
I wanna point out that you shouldn't choose your
E bike based on the motor and the same way as
you wouldn't choose a normal bike based on the crank.
Now, we have to bare in mind the geometry
and sizing all do matter, it's gonna have an effect on
the agility and the stability of the bike.
And we're gonna cover that on a later date.
Today, we're just focusing on the motors.
Let's talk about weight of E bike motors,
now in general they're about three and a half kilos.
This Bosch unit's four, where a Shimano is 2.8 kilos.
Does weight matter?
Well, not as much as such things
as size or its location in the frame.
When we're talking size, a smaller motor allows
more freedom for frame manufactures
to make bikes with good geometry.
At the same time, it's pointless having a light-weight
motor in the wrong part of the frame.
So, weight does matter but I wouldn't get
hung up on it too much and it's more than likely
that the weight of bike motors (mumbles) come down
significantly the next few years.
(upbeat music)
Torque levels, now we're not gonna
go into physics at this point.
In general, they range from about 70 newton metres
on a Shimano drive, to about 90 newton
metres on a Brose unit.
Does torque matter?
Well yes it does it has an effect on how
the power's delivered to the back wheel.
A lot of people talk about level of support,
now it's a very simple subject.
It comes down to how easy or how
hard it is to pedal your E bike.
Now it comes down to the level of assistance
that that motor is giving you.
Eco mode is gonna give you about 50% assist,
where as turbo is gonna give you about 300% assist.
Now it varies between brand to brand,
but the principle is roughly the same.
The bottom line is it's up to you
to decide how you use that power.
Let's talk about software and software
updates for your E bike.
Now, my heart usually sinks when I see this on my phone
and that's all it is, it's the
same as updates on your phone.
But on an E bike, it's there to get the best performance
out of your motor and you know what,
it's as simple as downloading the app,
connecting to your bike, and you can
get all kinds of information.
On some brands, it tells you when the motor needs servicing
but in general, it tells you everything about the general
health of your motor, a key part to E bike maintenance.
Okay, let's talk about displays, now that's your kinda
little button on the handlebar which is your
connection between you and the motor.
Now, it varies massively from brand to brand.
Now, Specialised are quite minimalist,
all you've got is a little button on the handlebar
which controls the power outlet.
However, you can also use it in conjunction with an app,
which means you can find all the
information when you get home.
So, with a specialised approach, you concentrate
more on the trail than on your statistics.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, you've got Bosch
which can give you as much information as you'd ever want.
You can still focus on the trail but you can see what
you're doing as you're going along.
So when it comes to displays, ultimately you can get
the information on your ride whichever way you choose.
One really important subject that
needs covering is resistance.
What exactly happens when the motor stops assisting
you pedalling and after which point you're doing
everything under your own steam.
Now this changes from motor to motor,
but essentially on some systems, the drive decouples
meaning it's a resistance free ride.
You can pedal like a normal mountain bike really.
And then another is there's an element of drag
in the system so it's a little bit harder to pedal.
Okay, so what you're gonna be asking me are what are the
ones that are resistance free?
Well, Brose, Rocky Mountain, and Specialised
are particularly easy to go once
you've passed that speed limit,
so that might be something to bare
in mind when you're choosing your E bike motor.
Right, let's talk about E bike motor care and maintenance.
Now, these motors on the whole are pretty bullet proof,
in fact some are hermetically sealed which
means that no grime or dirt can get into the system.
However, just like other things such as cars,
motorcycles, hairdryers, and drills, the same rules
apply, they're not big mates with water really.
So I think when it comes to maintaining an E bike motor,
pressure washers are a no no, it's more
like a bucket and sponge approach.
One tip you might wanna use is get a track pump
to evoke any moisture out of the system.
If not that maybe a hair dryer or a DA compressor,
(mumbles).
It's only at those points that you really should be
looking to taking the bike to a dealer to get it sorted out.
Most problems are easy to resolve.
On the whole, E bike motors are pretty
more approved for units.
But yeah, don't go wading through a river
with the motor totally submerged, if you don't do that,
you'll be all good.
Okay, that's an overview then of the kind of general
topics surrounding E bike motors.
Now it's probably time now to get into the real
nitty gritty, the specifics of each E bike motor.
We're gonna start off with the Shimano steps E8000 system.
First up, the modes that are available.
Now, there's three modes on the Shimano Steps.
You have eco, trail, and boost.
And the boost will give you 300% level of assist.
Not only that, you can actually customise each of those
settings to suit your particular type of riding.
Let's talk about the switches and displays
on the Shimano system.
It's very simple, there's two types, one is like a
traditional mountain bike shifter,
whereas the other one is really more compact
in it's case of plus or minus.
Now the display on the Shimano unit is really neat,
it's well protected behind the handlebar and it shows
the gearing, the power assist level,
and also the battery range.
Now the really cool thing about the step systems,
you can customise each of the modes
to suit your style of riding, it's a really nice feature.
Now you do that by way of an app called E-Tube,
which you can download onto your phone and in that way
you can customise all the mode settings,
you can check for firmware updates,
you can pretty much go into whatever level of detail
you want to, so yeah, E-Tube app
is what you need to tune into.
What are the characteristics then
of the Shimano step system?
Well, overall it's really natural to use this one.
When you're pedalling the bike, irrespective of how much
cadence, how much you're spinning the pedals,
this motor will still support you.
And also a really cool feature actually is that if you
pedal in trail mode, it actually manages your output,
so it's a little bit like driving
an automatic car in those respects.
What I will say is there's a big jump between trail
and boost mode, you use trail for flat ground
and transfers, but only the boost for
super steep technical climbs to winch your way out.
Overall, the motor's pretty small and compact in 2.8 kilos
so it means that a lot of the bikes with a Shimano motor
have got a really good geometry to them.
Unlike maybe the Brose, Rocky Mountain, and Specialised,
there is a little bit of drag once you go past that
level of support when you're doing
everything under you're own steam.
But overall, it's a beautiful system to use.
And what brands use it?
Well you have brands like Merida, Focus, BMC, Pivot,
Ghost, Scott, so yeah it's really popular system overall.
Let's move on to Specialised.
Now that's that beauty behind me.
Now in terms of the modes and support levels,
there are three, eco, trail, and turbo.
Now what's cool about this system is that through the
mission control app, which you can download,
you can adjust the motor currents in each of those modes,
so the range is actually infinite on this system.
Now all you've really got is a small button on
the handlebar which is plus or minus per assist.
The Specialised philosophy is you focus
more on the trail than on a display.
Having said that, if you need to there is an integrate
display on the down tube which shows how much battery is
left and what power assist you're in.
There is actually an after market garment unit available
if you need to bolt something on.
But like I mentioned earlier, there is mission control
which gives you every single level
of detail you could ever want.
Okay, what are the characteristics of this Specialised unit?
It's protected, it's simple, it's natural,
it's integrated, and it is super silent.
So when it comes to riding it, it's got really
variable power in one mode, and you tend to use trail
quite a lot of the time cause
it'll give you a constant output.
There's definitely a sweet spot in the cadence,
the amount you can spin the pedals at around 70 to 90 RPM.
And also, when you go from trail to turbo,
there's quite a big step so again, like Shimano,
you're only gonna be using that for
the super technical, super steep climbs.
What's it like when you get past the speed limiter?
Pretty good, it decouples really well so when you reach that
peak, that part where you have
to pedal under your own steam, it's actually quite
easy to do this on a specialised system.
Who uses the system?
Just Specialised.
Okay let's go straight in with the Bosch system.
Bosch have five motors but this is gonna be the
performance cx that we're gonna be talking about.
In terms of mode and support levels, it has four.
It has eco, tour, EMTB, and turbo.
And now the cool this about Bosch is that that EMTB mode
manages the outputs for you, so it's pretty much like
I mentioned earlier, it's like driving
an automatic car, it's really cool.
Bosch have three different levels of switches and displays,
they have purion, intuvia, and neon.
Now, it's the purion which you see most
on E mountain bikes, and it covers everything such as,
charge, speed, mode, range, trip, and total distance.
Now, if you go to the kind of flagship, the neon,
it's insane, it's almost like a personal trainer,
it's got everything in there.
Okay, so what's it like riding the Bosch system?
Well pretty simple, it dishes out the power really
progressively, and like I mentioned earlier,
that EMTB mode which is like riding an automatic
or driving an automatic car.
I think the key thing is is that philosophy,
it's the focus on the trail rather than fiddling
around with the buttons all the time.
So overall it's a really good system.
If you do use it in turbo, you need to be really careful
on hill climbs because there's a little bit of
override which can push you out the edge of the corner.
Also, maybe when you're going past that level of assist
where everything comes under you're own steam,
there's a little bit of drag in the system.
And also it's a little bit noisy,
but overall it's a pretty solid package, the Bosch system.
Who uses it, like High Bike, Cube, Scott, Burgamot,
La Pierre, KTM, it's a really really popular system.
Now this is a Brose motor drive unit, in this instance it's
a Fantic integral 160, a brand from Northern Italy.
Now it's actually a Brose S which is a development
of the old Brose T.
The key features on this are it's light, there's less
moving parts, it's lighter, and quite like the
Specialised drive unit, it's super, super quiet.
What's worth noting about Brose, is that for every second
car that's manufactured in the world,
there would be a Brose motor in that car, whether it be
windscreen wipers, seats, steering wheel, mirrors, anything.
It's a big, big motor brand.
Let's talk about modes and controls and battery.
In terms of modes, on this Fantic, there's three modes,
whereas actually Brose and some other
manufacturers, they're up to four.
In terms of apps, there's nothing for the fantic just yet,
but I hear it's only weeks away.
Now another key characteristic of the Brose motor,
is that when you pedal beyond the 25 kilometres an hour
restriction, there's no drag in this motor,
it's still very, very easy to spin.
Very smooth, very compact, it allows
for good frame geometry.
I mentioned earlier the kinda, the Bosch EMTB mode
which is quite like an automatic setting on that bike.
On the Brose, on the Fantic at least, you have to work
through the numbers, you have to go through the modes to
get the most out of that motor.
It's quite interesting, if you compare the Brose motor
and head unit on this Fantic, it's more of a kinda
cycle computer giving you all the modes, whereas the
Specialised approach is very much
minimalist so it's quite different in that respect.
Should we move onto Rocky Mountain?
Yeah, I guess so.
Okay, Rocky Mountain's a really straight forward one.
When it comes to the level of support and the modes,
there's three, I don't think they do have a name,
there's kind of easy, medium, or hard.
In terms of display, there's no display, there's just
the switch similar to the Specialised system.
Although it does have a indicator
of how much battery you've used.
When it comes to apps for the Rocky Mountain,
there is one you can download on your smartphone
and that can manage everything from the levels
of support, and each of the modes to maintaining
your motor, and it's something a dealer can use to
diagnose any faults with the bike.
So what are the characteristics of riding the
Rocky Mountain properly?
Well, you'll definitely find you'll spend most of your
time riding in the middle trail mode on this bike
because the top power mode is simply ludacris.
However, you don't need to worry too much about how much
you're spinning the pedals, what cadence you're in,
because it'll support you no matter what.
In fact, the power delivery is really really smooth
in whatever mode you ride on this bike.
A key part is the pickups, so because the engagement is so
immediate, no matter how steep the terrain,
if you stop and start, you can keep going
really really easily on this system.
So there's no drag, there's no lag,
and if you maintain it and lube
it really well, it's super quiet too.
And what brands use this system?
Just Rocky Mountain.
Okay let's talk Yamaha.
Now I did actually see Valentino Rossi
on a Yamaha E Bike only a few days ago.
But anyway, let's talk modes and support levels.
The Yamaha has five support levels on this bike.
It has eco plus, eco, standard,
high, and extra power.
Now it's worth mentioning on giant bikes, the system is
called sync drive pro and it has 360% of support.
When it comes to switches and displays
for the Yamaha system, this varies from brand to brand.
For example, what they use on the giant systems
is quite different from what they
use on the high bike system.
However what it does give you is a whole range
of information which is really
quite engaging to use while on the trail.
There's an instant engagement with the Yamaha PWX,
which means that on super tight climbs,
no matter if you drop down to low speeds,
you can pick up again really quickly.
So in that respect, it's a different
kinda strength of the system.
It works better on lower cadences, that means you're
gonna be spinning the pedals at a lower speed,
it kind of works really well, whereas if you're spinning
the pedals on higher speed, it tapers off a little bit.
Overall, I think the philosophy with the PWX system
is that you tend to use the mode switch quite a lot
in comparison to the Bosch EMTB mode,
which is like you're riding autopilot pretty much.
So, that's quite a big difference, it decouples
reasonably well, so it's pretty easy to spin those cranks.
In terms of noise, it's probably on the moderate scale.
Overall you could argue it's a less common system
than some of the others but it's never
less used by giant and high bike.
Thanks for watching this fundamentals on E bike motors.
We're gonna be doing a series actually,
on geometry, and also batteries on E bike systems.
If you found this video useful, please give us a
thumbs up, and anymore E bike content,
click up here for E bike versus enduro bike.
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La Pierre over vault.
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