Let me go next to Mike from Boston.
Mike from Boston.
We haven't heard from for for a little while, I guess.
What's going on with you, Mike?
Hi, David, thanks for taking my call.
Pleasure.
You know, I just want to respond to this and then kind of get your view on it.
A couple of callers ago.
I am really getting sick of these delusional people out there and some of the people on
on other progressive podcasts and blogs, people, you know, like crystal ball on on rising.
And I know he's your friend, colleague Lidsky on secular talk who are just so anti Joe Biden.
And they seem to be out for blood for him.
And I really can't understand why if this crisis right now that we are going through
it does not signal to people that Trump must be removed at all costs.
Right.
You were not only irresponsible, you were borderline selfish, just and not caring about
the lives that are being lost.
So let's take that.
I use it, I believe.
Let let me let's take that piece by piece, Mike.
So first of all, I have no idea what Kristol and Kyl have been saying, because, again,
I just I just don't watch shows.
I work on my show, you know, twelve hours a day.
And then I relax with some stuff that's not political content.
But so let's let's go through it in pieces.
First of all, remove Trump at all costs.
Not if you're going to replace him with something worse.
Right.
So like I've made the calculation that Biden is better than Trump.
That's why I am going to vote for Joe Biden to replace Trump.
If you give me an option that's worse than Trump, then I say keep Trump because I want
to do harm reduction.
That part probably we agree on, right?
Well, yeah, I mean, but the only realistic choices I see that you're really going to
I agree at this point in time are these are the options.
It's Joe Biden or it's Donald Trump now.
Right.
Why would Kristol I'm taking your word that Kristol and Kyl are are very much anti-Trump,
as you point out.
My guess is, if you ask them why they would say that, it's because maybe they don't see
Biden as better than Trump or they see Biden being elected as a path to something that
doesn't fix the problem in the longer term.
You'd have to ask them.
Right.
I mean, you're asking me about stuff I haven't seen.
My guess is if you ask them, they they would have a different perspective about.
And they would be able to articulate why they are as anti Biden as you describe them to
be.
I've made my view clear, which is when I look at history, I don't see acceleration ist theory
as having worked an acceleration ist perspectives as having worked.
I see we have succeeded through getting people in power who will make responsible choices
to the Supreme Court, which will then uphold the improvements that are made by the people
that we elect.
That that's what I've seen in the Progressive Era.
The New Deal era and the civil rights era.
So that's how I have established my framework.
And I think what you're pointing to is somebody who has a different framework.
I would say so, yes, I mean, but I just don't get the point.
I mean, I see a focus.
I don't think I look at that.
I look at the landscape in the country, the way that this crisis is being handled, the
way that the last three and a half years have gone.
And I don't I don't think this country can handle another four years of Donald Trump.
What I agree with you and I happen to agree with you.
I mean, listen, my.
So everybody has to figure out what works for them.
As I said before, somebody doesn't want to vote.
Biden, because they actually believe the country is better off with Biden losing and Trump
getting four more years.
Then they shouldn't vote Biden.
Right.
But I just I want everybody to be clear.
And there's is there is a contingent that I'm seeing, not Kyle and Crystal, but stuff
like I'll look at my subreddit each day and I'll look at my Twitter mentions each day
where there are people who are doing an anti Biden thing, but they're not actually saying
they think Trump is better.
So then it's like, well, what are you just posturing or are you trying to get a certain
reaction or are you trying to get Joe to come beg for your vote or whatnot?
Like, I don't need any of that stuff.
I'm their Maleny busy.
I don't like Biden.
Whatever.
I'm voting for Biden.
They're mad that they didn't get their guy, and your guy was Bernie Sanders and I was
Bernie Sanders guy.
Okay.
And I understand that disappointment.
Yeah.
But, you know, sometimes when there is no great choice and there is no right answer,
you do what you gotta do and take the best option available to you.
All right.
That's my perspective.
And you know, what I think is important to do is I don't see any benefit in going around
and attacking the motives of Kristol and Kyl.
Like, again, I'm going by what you're telling me.
But if they've come to the conclusion that they're never voting Biden and I don't I'm
not saying that that's what I don't know if that's what they're doing, but if they did.
My instinct is to assume again, because I know them to some degree.
I assume that they've come to that conclusion through some different framework than I have
rather than they don't care about death.
Like you said, I mean, clearly, they both care about death.
And I know them well enough to know they care about people dying.
I'm guessing they're working with a different framework.
Right.
I guess my point is, is that.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that in my in my opinion, in my view, if you really
care about the well-being of this country, you you you were a Bernie Sanders supporter
or Elizabeth Warren supporter.
And, you know, you're looking at this election and you're just going to say, well, you know
what, if I couldn't just get my guy and if we can't have it all or nothing right now.
Right.
I don't really care what happens to the country.
I'm going to vote third party or not vote at all or do whatever.
I think your I think you're extremely off base and extremely selfish and not really
caring about a lot of the suffering that's going on with some of these people, right?
Yeah.
So, Mike, it's like your frustration is that there are people who are coming to different
conclusions than you, and you're frustrated by that because for you, the conclusion you've
come to is so obvious.
Right.
I mean, look, I was going to vote for whoever the Democratic nominee was, that's just how
I went into this whole election cycle, which we're going.
Because I've seen what happens when you make your responsible choices.
And I just think they're being irresponsible.
Thanks, David.
All right.
Mike from Boston.
Great to hear from you.
Let's see if we can check in with our caller from the 6 1 6 area code who is calling today
from 6 1 6.
I think that's me.
Yes, it is.
Yes.
Hi, David.
Thanks for choosing a number.
This is Justin from Michigan.
Hey, John.
On the west side, this is a bit more of a technical question here, but just to jump
right in.
I don't recall you commenting on the Israeli Palestinian deal of the century, quote unquote,
proposed by Trump, which was largely drafted by Jared Kushner.
So if you see the proposed map, the potential Palestinian state looks like scattered islands
more or less within the Negev Desert.
And as you probably heard, Gadsen Netanyahu just recently signed an agreement to essentially
annex large swaths of the West Bank, seeming in tandem with this plan to just to complete
it before the 2020 election.
And just sort of part, this is speculative here, but it also to sort of soup it under
the rug during the coronavirus pandemic.
So my question is, what do you think of the plan?
Is it in any way feasible?
And isn't it sort of a slap in the face to Palestinian aspirations of statehood along
the 1967 borders?
I know it's loaded, but hey, here's some foreign policy for you.
So is this.
But by this, wouldn't you say that this is the deal from about a year ago?
Right.
That's right.
Yeah.
So I did I did comment on it at the time and did one or two pretty good detailed clips
about it.
I don't have the map in front of me, but certainly I've spoken before about the importance of,
you know, having a contiguous Palestinian state.
My you know, without having all of the details refreshed right in front of me, I wouldn't
be able to say anything more than what I said a year ago or whenever one when I covered
it.
Although what I will restate is I simply do not believe that the arbiters to a long lasting
deal in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are going to be Benjamin Netanyahu, nor any deal
in which Hamas is involved.
That I've been saying that for years.
I maintain that that is the case and that that will not be the case, that that won't
work.
And beyond that, you know, my my car.
I haven't looked at the deal for for a year.
And, you know, I would check out my prior commentary on it.
Mm hmm.
Jennifer, all that up quickly.
So with.
So would you then argue that any plan should begin with the Palestinian Authority, which
would then be widely embraced by the Palestinian people in Gaza, which would then, you know,
in turn wrote a letter like you would see a domino effect with Hamas leadership?
I eat well.
What I would love to see first would be Hamas removed from power period before we have to
have this domino effect.
And again, that Hamas has a stranglehold in Gaza.
And I don't know that I see that happening anytime soon either.
Mm hmm.
Right.
Absolutely.
Well, hey, I'll definitely check out those clips.
Thank you so much for your response.
And yeah, I'll I'll be calling in at some point with with with perhaps a few different
questions for you about foreign policy.
But thanks so much.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Shoot the phone call.
Great to hear from you.
I, as always, apologize to everybody I was not able to get to.
But we will take calls again.
We'll go to a quick break and be back with your questions after this.
The David Pakman Show David Pakman dadgum.