Monday afternoon, Detective Buie gets a call from Michelle Gustafson.
Michelle is Josh Fulgham's sister.
Michelle says, "Hey, Emilia just called me and she wants to talk."
Josh's sister and Josh's family was, were in the position that,
you know,
they-they knew that he was involved.
He, you know, after he confessed, he told them he was involved.
But they also believed that Emilia Carr was a part of it.
And the fact that she didn't get arrested, I think...
was kind of...grated on them,
that they couldn't understand that part of it.
And Michelle was willing to go to Emilia
and talk to Emilia about what had happened.
We asked her if she was willing to help us catch Emilia
by recording their conversations and, when she agreed,
we placed recording items in her car
so that we could hear what they were saying live.
The totality of the case with Emilia
was riding on her conversation with Michelle
because at that point we had nothing.
We only had what Josh had told us
her involvement was,
but we needed a little bit more
and we needed that directly from her.
We drove to a place near Emilia's house
and then we watched as Michelle picked Emilia up.
Emilia tried her best to get involved in the investigation
as much as possible
so that she can find out, actually, what we know
and how she can kind of wiggle her way out of it
based off of what we knew.
No.
Michelle and Emilia had driven around this large building here,
and they were parked just on the other side in the park area.
We had a radio here,
where we were able to monitor based off of the
listening and recording device that we had placed in Michelle's car.
Emilia went there to get direction, to find out what was going on,
and to make sure that Josh kept his mouth shut
because she knew as much as...
If Josh continued to talk, that that was getting...
It was going to get worse for the both of them.
This was orchestrated by Emilia
and now the tables had turned on her just a little bit,
to where she had to give a little bit
to get that she felt she was going to get a little bit.
At that point, we were sitting in the car and we were...
I remember looking over at Spivey and it was, like,
number one, disbelief.
Number two, we finally got what we wanted.
After we were convinced that we had heard everything
we needed to hear, we went ahead
and decided to interrupt their conversation so that we could go
ahead and get Emilia down to our office for an official interview.
Hey, is that chair comfortable for you? It's all right.
Which one's the most comfortable chair for you?
I guess this one. This one here?
Trade places with me.
As Detective Buie starts to interview her,
he doesn't mention to her that we had this recording
or that we had heard that entire conversation.
Let's talk about...
Is Michelle OK? Michelle is fine. Michelle is fine.
I appreciate you asking about her. She was kind of...
She's going through a lot... Yeah. ..obviously.
When we interviewed her previously,
it was more of a
fact-finding type interview.
In this interview we had the facts,
so now it was time to get to work...
on her.
What were you guys talking about out there?
Just like many times before, Emilia began to lie
and didn't tell us the truth.
I wasn't out there.
I think it's time we opened Pandora's box,
at least from our end.
And we need to do it on the record.
Today...
you
had a conversation with Josh's sister.
That conversation...
was recorded...totally.
You, out of your own mouth,
admitted to being there.
Tell me what happened.
You've already admitted to it. You've gotten over that hurdle.
You have admitted to killing someone.
Were you there?
On the record? Everything is on the record.
Everything from here on out is on the record.
You were there when she died.
HE CLEARS HIS THROAT
You told that girl today you tried to break her neck.
Is that right?
Then, if you have something to say
that's not the same as what Josh said...
Excuse me. ..now's the time.
Don't...give us that respect. Don't nod.
Is that right?
I'm not talking to you in sign language. I know.
I'm talking to you, person to person, respectably.
I don't want to assume that you nodded your head,
but is that right that you were there
with Josh when Heather took her last breath?
(Yes.)
I can't hear you.
Emilia's story matches Josh's almost exactly,
from start to finish, up until the moment that Heather is killed.
Emilia separates herself from the actual act and puts the act on Josh,
saying that he's the one that suffocated her.
How far back do you want me to go?
When you were standing behind her trying... After she was taped,
and I put the bag over her head,
and he taped it and I pulled the tape and he taped it.
I made a little attempt because I was scared and I was shaking,
and I told him, "I couldn't do it, I couldn't do it."
How many times do you think you tried?
Once or twice. And I just, I couldn't.
Once. How many times... Twice. ..did you keep trying?
Because I couldn't do it and I told him. I was shaking so bad.
I said, "Josh, I can't do this." So, then, I stepped back. OK.
And he went around and he took care of it.
But you tried to snap her neck because you wanted it to be... Because I was scared. ..quick.
You wanted it to be quick. Yeah, I didn't want her to suffer. You didn't want her to suffer,
so you tried to break her neck.
And I couldn't do it because I was shaking so bad.
So, then, I just stepped back and he took over...
and he held his hand over her nose,
and her mouth so that she couldn't breathe.
Only you and him know exactly who did what. Yeah, I know.
Because one's pointing at the other one,
but both of you guys were there...
present, assisting each other when she took her last breath.
Correct?
Correct. Exactly.
They both were equally involved
in orchestrating this,
so if Josh sat on her lap, or if Emilia sat on her lap,
or if Josh held a bag over her head,
or if Emilia held a bag over her head,
they were both equally involved.
They both could have...
stopped this.
From the very beginning...
Sgt Spivey kind of
played off the fact that his wife had been my teacher.
So, he kind of used that as a way to, "Hey, you know, you can
"trust me. I can help you out."
And there were several times, actually,
that they would pull me off into another room,
where there weren't cameras,
in their offices and things like that,
and talked to me and tell me,
"Hey, if you don't help us out, if you don't do something,
"you're going to go down for something you didn't do.
"So, we need you to come up with something so that we can get him."
And see, that's what they kept me telling - that they wanted him.
They wanted him at any cost and, if they had to use me to get him,
they were going to use me to get him.
So, they would feed me information.
I would get little titbits and I would...
They would tell me what he was saying and I would try to put it all together.
So, if I had a story that would line up with Josh's, I could
give them what they wanted, so I could get my kids and go home.
Nothing that I nor Lieutenant Spivey did,
during the course of this investigation,
manipulated her in any way
for her to give a false confession.
I think she had been worn down to the point where,
"Whatever you want me to say,
"so I can get my kids back and go home,
"I will tell you. I will tell you anything. If you tell me to say that there are pink elephants
"flying around this room, I will tell them that."
Because that's what's was told to me.
That's what I was told he was saying.
No. No.
I didn't know anything. I'd never been back there.
I knew nothing.
It was absolutely false.
She only knew the details of the crime because she was involved.
Quite frankly, if you confess to a crime
and you give details of that crime, what other defence do you have?
It must have been a false confession if you're going to plead not guilty,
so that's just the only option she's got left.
She was very conniving in what she did. She had a motive,
she had a reason,
and her downfall was
thinking that she was smarter than everybody else.
I mean, she was a smart woman,
but she hadn't typically
dealt with other people that were as smart or smarter than she was.
She still points the blame at someone else.
I personally don't understand why.
Is she this cold-hearted person that she displays?
Is that deep down inside of her? Part of me thinks yes.
I don't have an answer to why.
She just won't tell the truth.
Maybe that's something that she would...
She would have to take to her grave.
Everybody asks me that.
No, I didn't kill Heather.
I didn't have any reason to.
I didn't want her dead.
She was my friend...
..and I wish she was here.
I miss her. She's one of few people who can actually...
actually understood,
you know...
The struggle of loving your kids
and trying to survive,
even in a bad relationship.
She tried so hard.