Alright, Nate in Dallas, Texas, listening on 910 AM.
Nate, you are on with Tom Nash, what’s your question?
Hi, good afternoon.
So I understand that the Catholic Church is against capital punishment worldwide, calling
it “immoral,” whereas in the past, the Church was…was for it, or supported the
use of it by the state.
So my question is, if the Church in the past supported its use for criminals who conducted
such acts as homosexuality, cross-dressing, host desecration, any number of things, including
more horrendous things—but now they don’t—why can the Church claim exclusive access to some
sort of objective morality if it seems that the Church’s morality is subjective or fluid,
subject to the time or culture?
And this doesn’t seem like it’s different people, this isn’t different religions like
Judaism vs Christianity; this is a single religion and a single Church with evolving
or changing morals.
Well actually, Nate, it didn’t change morals.
What we’re talking about is application.
The Church has pointed out even now—and you can look at the Catechism of the Catholic
Church—abortion has always been an intrinsic moral evil, whereas capital punishment is
not.
What we’re talking about is application.
And the Church has made the judicious judgement that, with regard to the application of the
death penalty, given the culture that we live in, and given the fact that people are—can
be incarcerated and kept incarcerated in a secure way for the duration of their life
sentence, that—was this necessary to do, in terms of application?
And so it is not said that it is now immoral, necessarily—no, but rather it is efficacious,
whether it’s needful to do it, and so it’s not saying that, in fact, that somehow if
there is a capital punishment, that is somehow tantamount to an abortion, which is ALWAYS
an intrinsic moral evil; no, the question is whether it should be done prudentially,
whether there’s a real need to do it, and not that the Church’s teaching has changed.
And if you see in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it makes this clear about application,
not that the teaching per se has changed.
So there’s a crucial distinction to be made there between application vs a change in actual
teaching.
And there has not been a change in actual teaching.
Nate, does that make sense to you, the difference between a moral absolute and the application
of it?
It kinda does, I just thought that the Church, under John Paul II and Pope Francis, declared
that it was immoral.
And so if it’s now immoral, then why did it used to be—am I incorrect?
Is it not immoral?
Not necessarily, they would say that, with regard to the application—you can even check
in the Catechism, which came out under the pontificate of St. John Paul II—the issue
is whether it is necessary, and whether it is…you know…in some cases, often times
too—not often times, but sometimes—there can be a mistake, and then if other evidence
comes out, then you can’t correct it if somebody’s already been executed.
And there’s also the issue too, as they say, of incarceration.
So there is—it’s true that, given the nature of the punishment, too, it’s like,
well, given that people can be in jail, and that the nature of the punishment, we’re
saying, “Well, we have to do it;” it’s not saying that it is intrinsically evil.
It’s saying that, all things being equal, and given the fact that we can keep them incarcerated,
should we really—is this the most humane way to deal with people?
Not saying that it is necessarily intrinsically evil.
If that were the case, you would be right, there would be a contradiction between the
past and the present, in terms of the Church.
But when we talk about application, and given that there are other ways and secure ways
to keep criminals incarcerated, and given our culture of death in general—which, sadly,
abortion is a very big part of—is this the best way to deal with it?
Not saying that it has somehow become necessarily, and therefore intrinsically, evil.
And I would encourage you to check the Catechism on this section, under “Thou shalt not kill,”
under the fifth commandment, and you’ll see more reading there.
Okay, Nate?
Does that work for ya?
Yes sir, I’ll look into that, thank you very much.
Thanks very much for your call, Nate.