and margin Torrance Calif you were the first woman to wear a miniskirt before
the Supreme Court
yes and come I get there something more you are
L a first while I was first woman to
bank lawyer in 1961 ion
and the cost make a lot of money when the Justice Department extended mi in AE
she action 29 state Supreme Court
twice how on I also then became
area director for a pretty picture which and I've never taken
judges more seriously than anybody else hump
someone once said you know we all put on I think major is saying now you know we
can get refills 532 guys
they are put on to shoes just like we do
but in Houston I N doing 1954 that we should dress code
and old Supreme Court sentenced a woman
church much majors sanctions for wearing short sleeves
and Mitt to soap when
I apke became active with me but it legal to riches
especially in community activities I
came into court and first went up teenage state Supreme Court
and before the warren court I wore a miniskirt but we had to ask permission
and it turned into a really funny fun game at
fun and games think my parents had to Julia why keep me
stand up well the asked she Chief Justice Warren says to me
million actually its really a pleasure to welcome you to this caller
and but then the I
appeared to argues before the United States Supreme Court and
as judge blackmun credit when I had two goals and tasks to complete all right to
wear pants
silly he said to me are we don't really care
I as long as you are neat and clean but chief justice berger et shouldn't gonna
like it
my were my pencil anyway because clerks told me that skinhead
burger would never sent unless they could get somebody else to do it with
them
file but it was really you lose in
by the way I 19 connecting the right for poor people in this country
to be candid guest for all the poor people in this country to be
candidates a for political office
without paying see the problem is state which United sedition
sessions it just no there went my glory out the window and there goes the Rachel
for people out the window
Citizens United decision decision yeah I I'm with you
I know I was I was reading those a
legal blog this morning and it said that
and now I've I think I've lost the page so here's
arm that it before the United States Supreme Court until the nineteen
seventies
they required attorneys to where it's called morning dress
infirm and the Saints straight top trousers a gray ascot
a waistcoat and a car away morning coat this is stuff that you see in movies
from the 19th century
um was that how men is that how the solicitor general was dressed in
apparently Elena Kagan when she became the solicitor general
share a pantsuit and just kinda blew everything up
said well in 1973 a
when I argued before the United States Supreme Court which is by the way
a powerful experience i I do the problems he
I think we didn't with the ministered issue wasted she really had
9 all man in dresses and her team upholstery
and female lawyers who challenged him
right and and probably made him wonder what the hell is going on but no they
in 73 win a World just the article about someone appearing in a plant
a week a still bothered talk to me but what they didn't do with a shared dead
me are attorneys appearing on behalf
government had to wear I'll be uniform kinda things in weather what they did
with the women
ways from the men wore pants and then the long tables
women wore striped shirt and then the long tail
well and you know it's kinda ridiculous yeah
on and the thing is that when I was before the California
a Municipal Court on
and I for holistic and I came in a pantsuit
the judge offer to throw me in jail I couldn't go home
and put on my clothes I was area director for neighbors legal services at
that point we were well organized
so my community we immediately when our I got
10 lawyers state be coming represent me
and we had the our it
a group of people need to be called City News
City News call me attorney said are you really me judge in Cherry Hill
really gonna send her to jail at which point he call the presiding judge
and presiding judge said which
sharing name or last all he said
all but have your summer vacation he says get regular
give regular still be on TV tonight
you look like a city at all simply ask get rarer
her and he tried but I would not know until he acknowledge the fact that I
refuse to take
my pencil thats after that for a long time and never were anything except
pants it's a remarkable history large
well why do you think it is that women have gone through this
and I man have basically
not arm and and and that and that men haven't
felt the need to to buck that any
he does seem an wanted to show up before the Supreme Court are you know without a
tie on for example or or
you know without a sports coat arm I E
you know I'm I'm because Jamie
hair the rain very hey it's a privilege
and therefore it doesn't bother them to have to wear
the fancy clothes which question a lot of money
but I'll tell you doing during the sixties and seventies
it was in the 70s and early he rejected I mean I wore my
I war a my uniform when I was at the uniform
when I was at the bank for five years a
all a I couldn't do
a.m. English partly because with a business staying
and it wasn't until I got forward it was willing to challenge
a both their refusal to give me a title
and protecting the Pei Wei Asian simply
title and I think it has to do with male
attitude adjustment he I think
problemi s sec and our
patriarchy all you he defected you wear a male bring
certains privilege to you yes and
during the 1760s in seventy-some was amended go around I saw one
a activist attorney who wish to appear
ill weird be regained ok income limits in a couple
way yet and a it was
it was a challenge but mostly attorneys didn't feel that way they were having
more fun in their Brooks Brothers
here which is which right %uh they could afford all upset and unless you were a
a an attorney for for people
on you you really that's hardly the
world what was the guys name Lee his first name is Lee was a famous lawyer he
is to work %uh blitzen
and all you I I'm sorry
it addition listen 2014 right
yeah and I yeah there's now is back in as in the seventies and eighties
video is a idiot I i back in the
in 99 ago was a or two thousand
I got an invitation to a private audience with pope john paul the second
and so I replied asking if my wife to come with me
and they said yes she could and then they perceive the sand
a 14-page fax about how she should dress
there'd be nothing about how I should dress but they are all this detail about
what she had to wear what had to be covered what could be covered
and they said that the public not no she should not extend a hand to the pub
she's not speak to the pope
if you decide be when we finally got up to meet the pulp
he turned to Lewes reached out shook her hand and engage in conversation with her
arm you know it would be she was nice got you covered
but is like yep they're they're I mean it was like double standard on display
and so years
year if I'm understanding you correctly March what you're saying is that
is that women who are a dressing
in ways that are unconventional in the courtroom are not doing it
a they're not run a sexualized anything they're simply trying to assert
in some way their prerogative and power Inn
defiance a vmail authority and power which is traditional
an ingrained yes I think I think I'm
I'm saying a lot of that right the I think set
a night I think it's also a boy at this idea that we all need to be
uniform and Mar yon I mean
quest F lee bailey was a good how's that gonna
here but yes part might have to say
the and first I
a reputation for a raising issues
and those which I thought were kinda important
and and you'll actually many Steve
to some work said to did change some level on fact
I was counted just recently is one is the
women who a it in the last century
a that is very active in the civil rights movement I was at Wounded Knee
I was at and mexico is mississippi doing some work with me
Freedom House's I my first aid station databank lawyer
at the first thing that happened when I get back with I had lunch with somebody
officers whom I serve tight I was there
generalist and they said did you have a good education I think you're
Mesa which do you like to hunt down a mississippian
that we swing by a lil select killed by the way I mean damn near 10
and I say the least you know in the working in the Freedom House's
he said only such take care and I said
150 so this is what are we going to appear tonight
and you can't help it about it a nice long sorry
I think both I have to go with GTE home with Jono squared
anyway I go to jail because you want right
it happened and I needed to help people get
hahaha Marge it's an honor talking with you I'm sorry that the
a the automation equipment here's fire the break I
I have no control over but thank you so much for sharing your stories with us
it's great to hear perfect