THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN
RELATIONS, RICHARD HAAS.
HIS BOOK, "THE WORLD: A BRIEF
INTRODUCTION" IS OUT NOW IN
PAPERBACK.
AND MEMBER OF THE FOREIGN
RELATIONS COMMITTEE, DEMOCRATIC
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY OF
CONNECTICUT, HIS BOOK, "THE
VIOLENCE INSIDE US" IS NOW OUT
IN PAPERBACK, AS WELL.
WE THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING WITH
US THIS HOUR.
>> SENATOR, LETS BEGIN WITH
YOU.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH
US.
IT SEEMS WEVE BEEN HEARING OVER
THE PAST WEEK THAT THERES
LITTLE TO NOTHING THE UNITED
STATES CAN DO TO STOP THIS CYCLE
OF VIOLENCE.
THERE SEEMS TO BE NO END-GAME
HERE, OTHER THAN HAMAS
CONTINUING TO FIRE ROCKETS
TOWARDS ISRAELI CITIZENS AND
TOWNS.
AND FOR ISRAEL TO TARGET HAMAS
LEADERS THAT ARE SURROUNDED BY
CHILDREN AND WOMEN AND NEWS
OUTLETS.
DO YOU BELIEVE THERES NOTHING
THAT THE UNITED STATES CAN DO TO
STEP IN AND FORCE A CEASE-FIRE
ON BOTH SIDES?
>> WELL, I DO BELIEVE THE UNITED
STATES CAN PLAY A PRODUCTIVE
ROLE HERE.
THE CONTINUED ESCALATION OF THIS
CRISIS AND THE VIOLENCE
CONNECTED TO IT DOESNT SERVE
EITHER PARTYS ENDS.
ULTIMATELY, AS YOU SEE MORE AND
MORE CIVILIANS BEING KILLED ON
BOTH SIDES, IT CONTINUES TO FUEL
THIS GRIEVANCE.
IT DOESNT, IN MY MIND, PROTECT
ISRAEL IN THE LONG RUN, IF THEY
CONTINUE TO BARRAGE GAZA WITH
ROCKETS AND HAMAS IS NOT GOING
TO GET ANY CLOSER TO THE
NEGOTIATING TABLE BY LOBBING
THOUSANDS OF ROCKETS INTO
ISRAEL.
SO RIGHT NOW, WE NEED TO FOCUS
ON A CEASE-FIRE.
AND SO YOURE SEEING GROWING
CALLS FROM CONGRESS FOR THE
BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO PLAY A
STRONGER ROLE IN PUSHING FOR
THAT CEASE-FIRE.
LAST NIGHT, YOU HAD THE MAJORITY
OF THE SENATE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS
SIGN ON TO A CALL FOR A
CEASE-FIRE AND MYSELF AND
REPUBLICAN SENATOR TODD YOUNG
ISSUED THE FIRST BIPARTISAN CALL
FOR THAT CEASE-FIRE.
LISTEN, THE UNITED STATES IS AN
IMPORTANT SECURITY PARTNER FOR
THE ISRAELIS.
WE ARE AN IMPORTANT HUMANITARIAN
PARTNER WITH THE PALESTINIANS.
WE HAVE LEVERAGE ON BOTH SIDES.
AND I WOULD HOPE THAT WE WOULD
BE PUSHING VERY STRONGLY OVER
THE NEXT 24 HOURS FOR A
CEASE-FIRE.
>> OBVIOUSLY, THE ISRAELIS ARE,
THEY HAVE HAD 3,000 ROCKETS
FIRED THEIR WAY.
"THE NEW YORK TIMES" THIS
MORNING REPORTING THAT THERE IS
A BELIEF AMONG MANY THAT THEYRE
USING A DISPROPORTIONATE FORCE
AMONG PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.
YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF
CHILDREN AND WOMEN THAT HAVE
BEEN KILLED IN THESE ATTACKS.
OBVIOUSLY, THAT IS A HUMAN
TRAGEDY OF EPIC SCALE.
AND YET, WE DONT SEEM -- WHEN
THESE TRAGEDIES BREAK OUT EVERY
FOUR, FIVE, SIX YEARS, WE DONT
SEEM TO HAVE A GOOD FAITH
INTERMEDIARY THAT CAN GO AND GET
THE PALESTINIANS SITTING DOWN AT
THE TABLE.
WE HAVE A CORRUPT PALESTINIAN
AUTHORITY.
WE HAVE HAMAS, WHO CONTINUES TO
WANT TO DRIVE ISRAEL INTO THE
SEA.
HOW DO WE RECTIFY THAT
SITUATION?
>> LISTEN, ADMITTEDLY, IT IS
VERY DIFFICULT, GIVEN THAT RIGHT
NOW, ON BOTH SIDES OF THE
LEDGER, YOU DONT HAVE
LEADERSHIP THAT IS ABLE TO
DELIVER, RIGHT?
YOU DONT HAVE AN ISRAELI
GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW.
AND BENJAMIN NETANYAHUS
COALITION HAS BEEN DEPENDENT FOR
YEARS ON PUSHING THE COUNTRY
FURTHER AND FURTHER FROM A PATH
TO A PALESTINIAN STATE.
SIMILARLY, THE PALESTINIANS ARE
SPLIT.
IN FACT, THE REASON THAT HAMAS
DECIDED TO LAUNCH THESE
UNPROVOKED ROCKETS INTO ISRAEL
WAS TO TRY TO GAIN LEVERAGE OVER
ITS RIVAL, FATAH, THE OTHER MORE
MODERATE SIDE OF THE PALESTINIAN
INFRASTRUCTURE.
SO ADMITTEDLY, ITS VERY
DIFFICULT, MADE HARDER BY THE
FACT THAT THE EGYPTIANS AND
JORDANIANS ARE PROBABLY WEAKER
AND LESS ABLE TO BRING THE SIDES
TOGETHER TODAY.
BUT ONCE AGAIN, I THINK THIS IS
A MOMENT WHERE YOU SORT OF HAVE
TO USE THE LEVERAGE THAT WE
HAVE, RIGHT?
WE DO HAVE LEVERAGE WITH THE
ISRAELIS.
WE ARE AN IMPORTANT SECURITY
PARTNER WITH THEM.
THE DEFENSIVE MECHANISM, WHICH
STOPS MANY OF THESE ROCKETS FROM
HITTING ISRAEL IS MADE POSSIBLE
BY U.S. TAXPAYER FUNDING.
THE AID THAT COMES INTO
PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES IS MADE
POSSIBLE BY U.S. TAXPAYER
FUNDING.
SO LETS USE A LITTLE BIT
HEAVIER HAND RIGHT NOW TO TELL
BOTH SIDES THAT NOW IS THE TIME
TO STAND DOWN.
THAT NEITHER SIDE IS GOING TO BE
PROTECTING THEIR CITIZENS IN THE
LONG RUN, BY CONTINUING THIS
ESCALATION.
>> DO YOU AGREE WITH THE
OBSERVATION THAT TOM FRIEDMAN
AND SO MANY OTHER FOREIGN POLICY
OBSERVER HAVE MADE THAT THE ONLY
PEOPLE WHO ARE WINNING
POLITICALLY FROM THIS ARE
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU AND HAMAS.
>> WELL, AND LISTEN, SOMEHOW
THROUGH THIS, HAMAS HAS, YOU
KNOW, CONVINCED SO MANY
PALESTINIANS THAT THEY ARE THE
PROTECTORS OF THE HOLY SITES IN
AND AROUND JERUSALEM.
THATS A DISASTER FOR
PALESTINIANS.
SIMILARLY, BENJAMIN NETANYAHU
FOR YEARS HAS BEEN TAKING STEPS
TO MAKE A PALESTINIAN STATE
VIRTUAL
VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE.
AND THATS BAD FOR BOTH ISRAELIS
AND PALESTINIANS IN THE LONG
RUN.
LISTEN, AGAIN, THERES A LIMIT
TO HOW MUCH THE UNITED STATES
CAN DO HERE.
AS THE SORT OF POLITICS ON BOTH
SIDES GETS PUSHED TO THE
EXTREME, IT DOES MAKE PEACE
HARDER.
BUT THIS IS A MOMENT WHERE THE
UNITED STATES CAN ENGAGE AND WE
SHOULD.
>> SENATOR, YOUR BOOK IS OUT IN
PAPERBACK NOW.
IS THERE ANY HOPE, AS THERE WAS
AFTER NEWTOWN, THAT PEOPLE LIKE
PAT TOOMEY, JOE MANCHIN, SOME
REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WHO
WOULD COME TOGETHER, AT LEAST ON
A COMMON SENSE MEASURE LIKE
EXPANDING DRAMATICALLY
BACKGROUND CHECKS.
MAKING IT UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND
CHECKS, SOMETHING THAT ALMOST
089
90% OF AMERICANS SUPPORT.
>> YOU KNOW, IN MY BOOK, I MAKE
THE CASE THAT, YOU KNOW,
DEMOCRATS SHOULD ADMIT THAT THE
CONSTITUTION INCLUDES A RIGHT TO
PRIVATE GUN OWNERSHIP.
AND THAT MIGHT MAKE REPUBLICANS
A LITTLE LESS SCARED OF ENGAGING
WITH US IN TALKS LIKE UNIVERSAL
BACKGROUND CHECKS.
I TALK ABOUT THE GROWTH OF THE
ANTI-GUN VIOLENCE MOVEMENT.
AND WHAT WE HAVE SEEN THE
PUBLICATION OF MY BOOK IS THE
DISSENT INTO CHAOS OF THE GUN
LOBBY.
SO THE POLITICS ON THIS ISSUE
ARE VERY DIFFERENT.
WHICH IS WHY WE ARE, JOE,
ENGAGED IN PRETTY SERIOUS TALKS
RIGHT NOW ACROSS THE AISLE ON
EXPANDING BACKGROUND CHECKS.
AND I THINK THERES A BETTER
THAN 50/50 SHOT THAT WELL BE
ABLE TO BRING A BILL TO THE
SENATE FLOOR THAT WILL SAVE
LIVES AND EXPAND BACKGROUND
CHECKS.
AND THAT IS BECAUSE THE GUN
VIOLENCE MOVEMENT HAS BECOME
STRONGER.
THE NRA IS SORT OF DOWN ON THE
MAT AS THEY GO THROUGH
BANKRUPTCY PROCEEDINGS.
AND PEOPLE REALLY BELIEVE THAT
NOW IS THE TIME TO GET SOMETHING
DONE.
SO MAYBE ITS NOT MUCH GREATER
THAN 50/50, BUT ITS VERY
DIFFERENT THAN FIVE YEARS AGO,
WHEN IT WAS REALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO
GET THIS DEBATE STARTED.
>> WELL, I KNOW, SENATOR, FOR SO
MANY PEOPLE IN YOUR STATE, FOR
THOSE OF US THAT LIVED IN
CONNECTICUT DURING NEWTOWN, FOR
SO MANY PEOPLE ACROSS AMERICA,
WHAT A WONDERFUL STEP FORWARD
THAT WOULD BE IF REPUBLICANS AND
DEMOCRATS ALIKE COULD COME
TOGETHER AND GIVE AMERICANS,
WHAT 90% OF AMERICANS SUPPORT,
AND THAT IS UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND
CHECKS.
THANK YOU SO MUCH, SENATOR CHRIS