THIS WEEK GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER APPOINTED A COMMITTEE TO FIGURE
OUT HOW AND WHEN MORE PEOPLE MIGHT START TO HEAD BACK TO WORK
IN THE AGE OF THE COVID-19. MEANWHILE, UNEMPLOYMENT CLAIMS
CONTINUE TO RISE. AND A RECENT REPORT BY VOX
FOUND NATIONWIDE, 71% OF THOSE WHO FILED FOR IT DID NOT RECEIVE
UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS IN MARCH. FOR PERSPECTIVE ON THAT, I
TURNED ONCE AGAIN TO SUZANNE MURPHY CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER
AT UNEMPLOYMENT TAX CONTROL ASSOCIATES, INC.
>> I WASN'T SURPRISED. I WASN'T SURPRISED.
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, I'M MORE INTO THE WEEDS WITH THIS BECAUSE IT
IS MY INDUSTRY, I'VE BEEN IN THE INDUSTRY FOR 30 YEARS.
SO WAS NOT AT ALL SURPRISED. I WAS PLEASANTLY SURPRISED AND
REALLY RELIEVED FOR MY HOME STATE, FOR THE BAY STATE, THAT
WE -- WE HAVE BEEN OVERPERFORMING AGAINST THE
EXPECTATIONS. BUT IT'S VERY SAD COMMENTARY AND
IT'S A BIT OF A DISGRACE ACTUALLY, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE
NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST JOBS, MANY OF THEM SINCE MARCH
HAVE GONE THE ENTIRE MONTH OF MARCH, AND NOW, APRIL AND HAVE
NOT SEEN A DIME YET. >> TO YOUR POINT ABOUT
MASSACHUSETTS, THE PEW RESEARCH FINDING SAID THAT 66 % OF PEOPLE
IN MASSACHUSETTS DID ACTUALLY RECEIVE PAYMENTS IF THEY HAD
APPLIED FOR UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS.
WHAT HAS MASSACHUSETTS DONE DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE THERE'S A
HUGE GAP IF YOU LOOK AT MASSACHUSETTS AND SOME OF THOSE
OTHER STATES. >> YEAH, HUGE DELTA.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY DID IS THEY INVESTED CLOSE TO 10
YEARS AGO, IF NOT 10 YEARS AGO, BUT I WANT TO SAY MAYBE -- FOR
SOME REASON I'M COMING UP WITH EIGHT YEARS AGO.
IN THE MODERNIZING THEIR ONLINE SYSTEM, ACTUALLY MODERNIZING
THEIR SYSTEM, PERIOD. THEY WEREN'T REALLY ONLINE.
IT WAS AN OLD LEGACY SYSTEM, IT WAS REALLY CLUNKY.
IT WAS NOT EFFICIENT. AND THEY HAD THE -- THE
KNOWLEDGE AND THE FORESIGHT TO REALIZE THAT THIS WAS NOT GOING
TO PERFORM WELL, THEIR SYSTEM EVEN UNDER NORMAL LOADS WOULD
NOT PERFORM WELL GIVEN THE WAY TECHNOLOGY HAS MOVED FORWARD.
SO THEY INVESTED THE MONEY, THEY BROUGHT IN -- SPENT A LOT OF
MONEY, DIDN'T GO WELL AT FIRST, BUT THEY KEPT WORKING ON THE
IMPROVEMENTS. THEY KEPT MAINTAINING IT.
THEY DID THE UPDATES. AND OBVIOUSLY, IT HAS PAID OFF.
SO KUDOS TO THEM. THAT WAS I THINK PROBABLY THE
BIGGEST PART OF IT, BUT ALSO OUR LAWS IN MASSACHUSETTS, AND WE
ARE VERY CLAIMANT-CENTERED. IT'S A STATE WHERE IT'S NOT LIKE
DOWN SOUTH WHERE THEY'RE RIGHT TO WORK STATES.
WE ARE REALLY ABOUT TAKING CARE OF THE WORKERS MORE SO THAN MANY
OTHER STATES, LIKE FLORIDA, FOR INSTANCE, SOUTHERN STATES HAVE
NOT PERFORMED WELL AT ALL. >> WE'VE SEEN HIGH NUMBER OF
PEOPLE APPLYING FOR UNEMPLOYMENT HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS.
WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN HEARING FROM PEOPLE ABOUT THE PROCESS?
I'VE BEEN HEARING FROM FRIENDS WHO LIVE IN NEW YORK CITY,
THEY'RE SPENDING HOURS AND HOURS ONLINE TRYING TO GET THROUGH TO
EVEN GET THE APPLICATION IN. WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE HERE IN
MASSACHUSETTS? >> WE ARE NOT SEEING THAT LEVEL
OF FRUSTRATION. I HAVE -- I CERTAINLY HAVE SEEN
WITH THE NEW CLASS OF EMPLOYERS, WITH THE PANDEMIC UNEMPLOYMENT
ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, THOSE WOULD BE THE GIG WORKERS, THE
CHARITABLE WORKERS, INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS, THERE WAS A LOT OF
CONFUSION AND MISINFORMATION AND PANIC KIND OF, A CERTAIN DEGREE
OF PANIC AMONG THOSE WORKERS, BECAUSE THERE WAS NO SYSTEM
BUILT INTO THE PORTAL AT THE DEPARTMENT OF UNEMPLOYMENT
ASSISTANCE. HOWEVER, I DID NOT SEE THAT, WE
WEREN'T GETTING A LOT IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, REGULAR CLASS,
YOUR STANDARD CLASS OF WORKERS HAVING ACCESS PROBLEMS.
MASSACHUSETTS OFFERS A TELEPHONE WAY TO FILE YOUR CLAIMS FOR
THOSE WHO ARE NOT VERY GOOD WITH TECHNOLOGY, SO THEY REMAIN VERY
SENSITIVE, MORE OF A CUSTOMER SERVICE OUTLOOK ON SERVING
CLAIMANTS, SO YOU CAN GO ONLINE OR YOU CAN FILE BY TELEPHONE.
WHAT I AM SEEING CONCERNS ME ABOUT THIRD PARTIES AND OTHER
PLAYERS, ROGUE PLAYERS GETTING INVOLVED IN HELPING CLAIMANTS
WHO ARE NEEDY, WHO ARE PANICKING, WHO DO NOT KNOW WHERE
TO TURN, LIKE THE PEOPLE IN NEW YORK, T THE PEOPLE IN FLORIDA WO
ARE LOOKING FOR SOLUTIONS, HOW TO ACCESS THE SYSTEM, HOW TO
FILE A CLAIM. THOSE ARE THE VERY VULNERABLE
CLAIMANTS AND THERE ARE ISSUES WITH FRAUD.
>> SO WHAT ARE THOSE THIRD PARTY PEOPLE TRYING TO DO?
>> EVEN JUST RECENTLY WHAT I SAW AND THIS IS MASSACHUSETTS, AND
MASSACHUSETTS IS NOT A REALLY GOOD SAMPLE PUT IT'S AN EXAMPLE
OF WHAT HAPPENED. I WAS ON A NEIGHBORHOOD APP, IT
GOES BY ZIP CODE. AND THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE IN MY
AREA, IN THE WESTERN MASS AREA WHO WERE ASKING LOTS OF
QUESTIONS ABOUT UNEMPLOYMENT. SO I STEPPED IN, AND I SAID I
HAPPEN TO BE -- ODD SKILL SET HERE, BUT I HAPPEN TO BE AN
EXPERT IN UNEMPLOYMENT, HOW CAN I HELP YOU?
AND WHAT I SAW HAPPEN IN THE THREAD LATER ON AND I HAD TO GO
BACK AND REMIND PEOPLE PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS, WAS THAT
THERE WERE OTHERS THAT WERE POPPING ON AND SAYING SET UP A
ZOOM MEETING, I'LL HELP YOU FILE YOUR CLAIM FOR UNEMPLOYMENT.
WELL, THAT'S LIKE THE WORST THING YOU COULD POSSIBLY DO
BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO SHARE THEIR SCREEN WITH THEM, WHICH
MEANS THEY CAN TAKE A SCREEN SHOT, THEY CAN ACCESS ALL THEIR
DATA. IF THEY PUT IN THEIR SOCIAL
SECURITY NUMBER, THEIR ADDRESS, ALL THAT INFORMATION.
THAT IS IMMEDIATELY USABLE FOR ROGUE PARTIES WHO WANT TO FILE A
FRAUD CLAIM AND THEN THE PERSON WHO'S LEGITIMATELY ENTITLED IS
GOING TO HAVE THEIR BENEFITS MISDIRECTED IF THEY ARE PAID AND
THEY'RE GOING TO BE STUCK WITH IDENTITY THEFT AND TRYING TO
PROVE THROUGH THE APPEALS SYSTEM, WHICH IS GOING TO BE
VERY DELAYED THAT IT WASN'T THEM WHO RECEIVED THE UNEMPLOYMENT
CLAIM, BUT, IN FACT, YOU KNOW, A PERSON WHO WAS PERPETRATING
FRAUD. >> AND THAT'S NOT THE ONLY
INSTANCE THAT YOU'VE SEEN WITH FRAUD.
YOU HAD SOME OTHER FRAUDULENT CLAIMS COME THROUGH UTCA, RIGHT?
OR TRY TO? >> FOR OUR CLIENTS.
SO YOU KNOW -- AND WHEN YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE INDEPENDENT
CONTRACTORS AND GIG WORKERS ARE ANOTHER AREA OF CONCERN BUT A
STANDARD CLAIM, WE'VE HAD PEOPLE FILE CLAIMS AND OUR EMPLOYER HAS
TRIED TO RESPOND, GONE BACK AND SAID HEY, LISTEN WE DON'T HAVE
INFORMATION THAT THIS PERSON EVER WAS EMPLOYED WITH US.
SO THEY'LL GO BACK AND THEY'LL DO A SEARCH AND THEY SHOULD WAGE
INFORMATION. THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE WOULD
ALSO CROSS-REFERENCED WITH THE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE OFFICES
AND THEY TYPICALLY HAVE WAGE INFORMATION.
NOW, IF YOU THINK BACK TO WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE EQUIFAX BREACH
A FEW YEARS AGO, A LOT OF EMPLOYMENT AND PERSONAL T DATA S
RELEASED. THAT DATA BECOMES EXTREMELY
VALUABLE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IF THEY HAVE EMPLOYMENT DATA, THEY
HAVE WAGES FOR THE LAST YEAR OR TWO OR THEY KNOW WHERE THAT
PERSON MAY HAVE WORKED LAST, THEY CAN FILE FRAUDULENT CLAIMS.
AND, YOU KNOW, AND IN THE INSTANCES WE'RE SEEING WITH OUR
CLIENTS, IF THE EMPLOYER IS PROMPT IN GETTING BACK AND
SAYING HEY, LISTEN THIS IS NOT AN EMPLOYEE, AND THAT GETS BACK
TO THE STATE IN A TIMELY MANNER, THEN THEY WILL TYPICALLY NOT BE
PAID, BUT THAT'S NOT ALWAYS THE CASE.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT 100 % WHEN YOU'RE PUSHING THAT MUCH VOLUME
THROUGH. >> DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF HOW
MANY OF THE FRAUDULENT CLAIMS MAY HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH?
IN MASSACHUSETTS? OR IN THE BROADER SYSTEM?
>> NO. I MEAN, IT'S FUNNY.
I'VE BEEN ASKED SO MANY TIMES IF I HAVE AN IDEA OF NUMBERS AND
SCALE, JUST IN GENERAL ABOUT LIKE WHERE THINGS ARE GOING TO
TOP OFF. NO, THAT'S A SUBSET OF TATE THAT
WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO RIGHT NOW.
WE REALLY AREN'T GOING TO KNOW. I WOULD IMAGINE THE STATES WON'T
EVEN KNOW FOR A WHILE. AS FAR AS OUR UNEMPLOYMENT RATE
IN MASSACHUSETTS OR NATIONALLY. THERE ARE SO MANY THAT CAN'T
ACCESS THE SYSTEM AS YOU HAVE DESCRIBED THAT HAVE NOT EVEN
BEEN ABLE TO GET IN THE FRONT DOOR.
SO ONCE THOSE PEOPLE ARE ABLE ACTUALLY TO GET INTO THE
SYSTEMS, THEN IT'S OBVIOUSLY GOING TO BE THE NUMBERS THAT
WE'RE SEEING NOW IN MY ESTIMATION ARE ACTUALLY -- ARE
GOING TO BE ON THE LOW SIDE. >> IF SOMEONE DOES THINK THAT A
FRAUDULENT CLAIM HAS BEEN FILED LIKE THEY GO TO MILE AND THEIR
NAME SAYS OH, NO, YOU'VE ALREADY CLAIMED UNEMPLOYMENT.
YOU CAN'T. WHAT SHOULD THEY DO IF THEY FEEL
LIKE THEY'RE A VICTIM OF THAT KIND OF FRAUD?
>> THEY SHOULD ABSOLUTELY NOTIFY THE UNEMPLOYMENT OFFICE IN THEIR
STATE, BUT THEY ALSO SHOULD NOTIFY I BELIEVE THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL'S OFFICE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL WANTS INFORMATION ABOUT
THIS BECAUSE THAT WOULD ALSO BE MISAPPROPRIATION OF FEDERAL
FUNDS BECAUSE REMEMBER, IT'S THE FEDS, THE TREASURY THAT'S
PUSHING THIS REVENUE TO THE STATES, THE STATE UNEMPLOYMENT
AGENCIES TO GET OUT TO THE CLAIMANTS.
SO IT WOULD BE A FEDERAL CRIME AS WELL AS A STATE CRIME.
>> YOU MENTIONED THE PANDEMIC UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE PROGRAM,
THAT NEW POOL OF MONEY AVAILABLE TO THE GIG ECONOMY WORKERS,
SELF-EMPLOYED, ETC. WHEN WE TALKED A FEW WEEKS AGO,
WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS WAS A NEW PORTAL THAT
THE STATE HAD TO SET UP IN ORDER FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO APPLY
TO THE PROCESS AND APRIL 30th WAS THE TARGET DATE THE STATE
HAD SET. WHERE DO WE STAND ON THAT?
>> WE DID A GREAT JOB THERE IN MASSACHUSETTS.
I WAS IMPRESSED. WE LAUNCHED ON 4/20.
SO THEY BEAT THAT DATE BY A GOOD 10 DAYS AND THEY WERE ABLE TO
TAKE ACCEPT FORMS. I HAVEN'T HEARD OF ANYBODY
ACTUALLY GOOD GETTING PAID, BUT THEY WERE ABLE TO MOVE THAT UP
BY 10 DAYS AND WERE ABLE TO TAKE FORMS AND START PROCESSING THESE
CLAIMS. NOW, WHAT WE ARE HEARING IS
THERE ARE FORMS AND THERE'S INFORMATION THAT IS REALLY THE
BURDEN AND THE ONUS WILL BE ON THE CLAIMANTS, SO ON THE GIG
WORKER, ON THE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR, AND ON THE
CHARITABLE WORKER TO PROVIDE THE NECESSARY DOCUMENTATION TO THE
STATE. THEY WILL ACTUALLY NOT BE GOING
TO MAKE INQUIRY OF THE EMPLOYER AS THEY DO IN A STANDARD CLAIM.
ALL THE BIRDFRONT PROVING WANES, FOR PROVING EARNINGS, FOR
PROVING YOU KNOW, WHAT THEIR SCHEDULE WAS AND THINGS LIKE
THAT TO ESTABLISH THEIR CLAIM, AS WELL AS THE FACT THAT THEY
WERE IMPACTED BY COVID TO BE QUALIFIED, THAT IS ALL FALLING
ON THE CLAIMANT AND NOT ON THE -- THOSE THAT THEY PROVIDED
SERVICES TO, AND CERTAINLY IF YOU'RE AN INDEPENDENT
CONTRACTOR, YOU COULD BE WORKING FOR HOSPITAL, YOU COULD BE
WORKING FOR A HUMAN SERVICE AGENCY, YOU COULD BE WORKING FOR
ANOTHER PROFESSIONAL. BUT THOSE PARTIES WOULD NOT BE
INVOLVED IN HELPING YOU ESTABLISH YOUR CLAIM.
>> WHEN WE LOOK AT UNEMPLOYMENT OVERALL, A LOT OF ADDITIONALLING
MONEY AVAILABLE THROUGH THIS, THE FEDERAL STIMULUS, THAT HAS
COME OUT AND I'VE BEEN HEARING FROM US PEOPLE THAT THERE'S
CONCERNS THAT WHEN THE WEEKS, THE EXTENDED WEEKS THAT ARE
ALLOWED BETWEEN THE COMBINATION OF STATE AND FEDERAL BENEFITS,
WITH THOSE, PEOPLE MIGHT BE ABLE TO EARN MORE MONEY THAN THEY
WOULD HAVE AT THEIR PREVIOUS JOB AND THAT COULD AFFECT US WHEN
PEOPLE ARE READY TO GET BACK INTO THE WORKFORCE.
ARE YOU HEARING THAT EMPLOYERS ARE CONCERNED THAT THERE MIGHT
NOT BE PEOPLE THERE WILLING TO DO THE WORK ANYMORE?
>> YEAH, I'M ACTUALLY HEARING -- THAT'S A REALLY GOOD LOADED
QUESTION THERE. I'M HEARING A LOT OF FEEDBACK ON
THE ENTIRE -- THE ENTIRE DYNAMIC AND WHAT'S BEEN HARD-WIRED INTO
THE WAY THE STIMULUS PACKAGE ON THE UNEMPLOYMENT SIDE HAS BEEN
ROLLED OUT. OBVIOUSLY, IT'S NOT FUNCTIONING
AS WELL AS THAT VOX ARTICLE DETAILED, BUT MOREOVER, THERE'S
A LOT OF MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT HOW THIS IS GOING TO WORK MOVING
FORWARD. NOW, IF THE INDIVIDUAL GOVERNORS
DECIDE THAT THEY WANT TO OPEN THEIR STATES' ECONOMIES UP, WHAT
WILL HAPPEN IS THE -- THE EMPLOYERS WILL BE EXPECTED TO
RECALL, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO RECEIVED PPEP FUNDS, BUT ALL
EMPLOYERS WILL BE EXPECTED TO RECALL THEIR EMPLOYEES AND IF
THE EMPLOYEES REFUSE RECALL, BECAUSE OF THE DISINCENTIVE
CREATED BY FINANCIALLY THEIR PERSONAL ECONOMICS AND THEY ARE
FEARFUL OF THE CONTAGION OF BEING INFECTED, THAT THE STATES
HAVE NOT TAKEN THE NECESSARY PRECAUTIONS, THAT THEIR
INDIVIDUAL EMPLOYERS HAVE NOT TAKEN THE NECESSARY PRECAUTIONS
TO PROTECT THEIR HEALTH AND THEIR WELLBEING AND THEIR
FAMILIES, THAT OPENS UP A WHOLE NEW QUAGMIRE IN TERMS OF HOW
WILL THE STATES HANDLE THIS? NOW, THE STATES HAVE ON THE
BOOKS, ALMOST EVERY SINGLE STATE, I CAN'T THINK OF ONE THAT
DOESN'T, MASSACHUSETTS WOULD BE INCLUDED, AND WE ARE A STATE
THAT INTERPRETS THE LAWS VERY LIBERALLY IN FAVOR OF THE
CLAIMANT, BUT IF YOU REFUSE RECALL TO YOUR FORMER POSITION,
AS IT WAS WHEN YOU LEFT IT, AND THE CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT ARE
THE SAME THAT YOU WILL NOT BE ELIGIBLE, SO IT'S GOING TO FLAG
IN THE SYSTEM AND YOUR BENEFITS WILL BE HELD UP.
AND THEY'RE GOING TO COME TO YOU AND SAY WHY DID YOU REFUSE
RECALL? AND FOR THE MOST PART, EVERYBODY
CAN EXPECT TO BE DENIED. THERE AREN'T ANY EXCEPTIONS I'M
AWARE OF. SO THEY WILL NOT CONTINUE TO
RECEIVE BENEFITS. AND ON TOP OF THAT, YOU KNOW,
THOSE -- THE EMPLOYERS THAT USED THE PPP PLAN, THE PAYROLL
PROTECTION PROGRAM BENEFITS, THAT WERE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO
GET FUNDING IN ANY OF THE TWO ROUNDS, THEY HAVE EMPLOYEES THAT
THEY ARE MAINTAINING AND IT'S A GREAT PROGRAM IF THEY WERE ABLE
TO GET ACCESS TO IT, AND IT ALSO KEEPS THE HEALTH INSURACE
BENEFITS, IF THEY WERE RECEIVING HEALTH INSURANCE BENEFITS, IT
KEEPS THAT INTACT, WHILE IT'S NOT THE CASE WITH THE CLAIMANTS
WHO FILE FOR UNEMPLOYMENT, MOST DID NOT RECEIVE HEALTH INSURANCE
BENEFITS, AND SO NOT ONLY WILL THEY NOT RECEIVE THE CONTINUING
BENEFITS AND THE $600 WEEKLY SUPPLEMENT.
THEY WILL ALSO -- MOST OF THEM CANNOT AFFORD AND ARE MOVING
FORWARD WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE BENEFITS, SO IT REALLY ISN'T AS
MUCH OF A DISINCENTIVE TO RETURN TO WORK WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND HOW
THE LAWS ARE GOING TO TREAT REFUSALS OF WORK.
THESE PEOPLE WILL FOR THE MOST PART NOT RECEIVE THEIR BENEFITS
ANYMORE.