MEN. MICHAEL COHEN GETS IT AND THE
OTHER BEING FOUND GUILTY.
THAT GETS US TO BREAKING NEWS.
BRAND NEW REPORTING FROM THE
"WALL STREET JOURNAL" THAT PAUL
MANAFORT WAS WORKING ACTIVELY TO
SEEK A PLEA DEAL WITH BOB
MUELLER TO BASICALLY STAVE OFF
THE UPCOMING TRIAL IN D.C.
WHAT’S IMPORTANT, THOSE TALKS
BROKE DOWN.
BROKE DOWN. PLEA DISCUSSIONS GOING ON --
IMAGINE HOW DRAMATIC THIS WAS --
THESE DISCUSSIONS GOING ON WHILE
EVERYONE WAS AWAITING WHAT THAT
VIRGINIA JURY WOULD DO
DELIBERATING AGAINST BARK AND
TAX CHARGES AGAINST MANAFORT,
STALLING ON QUESTIONS RAISED BY
SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT MUELLER
AND THE JOURNAL NOT ABLE TO FIND
OUT WHAT THOSE ARE.
YOU LOOK AT THESE IMAGES LAST
WEEK THAT CAPTIVATED THE NATION,
OWL OF THIS SHOWS SOMETHING WE
DIDN’T KNOW, SOMETHING WAS
GETTING TO MANAFORT, MAYBE
POTENTIAL JAIL TIME HE SEES ALL
TOO REAL OR MOUNTING PRESSURE
ACROSS THE ENTIRE TRUMP UNIVERSE
WITH MICHAEL COHEN AND TRUMP’S
MONEY MAN AND HIS TABLOID ALY
AND THE PROBE IN NEW YORK IS
SERIOUSLY WORRYING SOME TRUMP
ALLIES.
ALLIES. >> PERHAPS THE SPECIAL COUNSEL
IS THE LEAST THE PRESIDENT FACES
NOW.
NOW. YOU HAVE TO THE SOUTHERN
DISTRICT, NEW YORK ATTORNEY
GENERAL AND MANHATTAN ATTORNEY
GENERAL.
GENERAL. WHAT’S THE GREATEST THREAT?
>> I SAID THAT FROM THE
BEGINNING, I THINK HE HAS
CONSTITUTIONAL DEFENSES TO THE
INVESTIGATION BEING CONDUCTED BY
MUELLER.
MUELLER. THERE ARE NO CONSTITUTIONAL
DEFENSES TO WHAT THE SOUTHERN
DISTRICT IS INVESTIGATING.
I THINK THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT IS
THE GREATEST THREAT.
>> YOU HEAR THE QUOTE, THE
GREATEST THREAT FROM ALAN DURCH
DURSTOWISCH.
DURSTOWISCH. THE LIST INCLUDES CAMPAIGN
RELATED CRIMES AND TRUMP
CAMPAIGN AND ADMINISTRATION AND
DEALS MANAFORT AND OTHERS WERE
WORKING ON.
WORKING ON. INCLUDES THE LEGAL EXPOSURE OF
TRUMP ORGANIZATION AND PAYOFFS
OF WOMEN WHO ALLEGE PAST
RELATIONSHIPS.
RELATIONSHIPS. AS WE GO THROUGH THE LEGAL WOES
THAT RAISE THE HEAT ON THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION, THERE IS THAT
MOUNTING EVIDENCE BY DONALD
TRUMP AND OBSTRUCTION HIS AIDES
ARE INVESTIGATING.
ARE INVESTIGATING. THAT THIS IS BACKDROP.
IF YOU FOLLOW THE NEWS, FOLLOW
THESE CASES, YOU KNOW, PAUL
MANAFORT IS THE ONE WHO WOULDN’T
PLEA, WOULDN’T NEGOTIATE, WENT
ALL THE WAY TO TRIAL, AS ALL
THESE OTHER PEOPLE INCLUDING
MICHAEL COHEN LAST WEEK PLED
OUT.
OUT. IT IS BIG AND NEW TONIGHT
MICHAEL COHEN, GEORGE
PAPADOPOULOS, MICHAEL FLYNN, ALL
THESE OTHER PEOPLE COULD BE
POTENTIALLY JOINED, ACCORDING TO
THIS REPORTING BY PAUL MANAFORT
WHO DOES SUGGEST HE DOES NOT
THINK A PARDON IS ON THE WAY.
"VANITY FAIR" ALSO HAS A NEW
REPORT THAT TRUMP AT LEAST TOOK
ACTIVE STEPS TO EXPLORE THE IDEA
OF A MANAFORT PARDON AND
CALIBERED WITH McGAHN WHO WAS
AGAINST THE IDEA AND TRUMP
RESPONDED BY THREATENING TO GET
RID OF McGAHN AND HIRE A NEW
LAWYER WHO WOULD GO ALONG WITH
HIM.
HIM. IT SUGGESTS TRUMP IS HIS OWN
WORST ENEMY IN THIS PROBE.
THE PARDON POWER CAN BE ABUSED
IN LEGAL WAYS.
AND TRUMP WAS SET ON DEFENDING
McGAHN ON TWITTER AND PRIVATELY
CONSIDERING OTHER STRATEGIES AND
BRACING FOR A WAR-TIME FOOTING
WHERE HE WOULD WANT A LAWYER
MORE AGGRESSIVE TOWARDS MUELLER
THAN McGAHN.
THAN McGAHN. WE ALL KNOW McGAHN HAS
BENEFITTED BY LEAKS THAT PORTRAY
HIM AS VERY HELPFUL TO MUELLER,
NOT AN ADVERSARY AND SUGGESTING
RUMORS WHATEVER POTENTIAL PARDON
THERE WERE WEREN’T GOOD ENOUGH
FOR PAUL MANAFORT AND HIS
LAWYERS LAST WEEK AS HE
CONSIDERS UP TO 80 YEARS IN JAIL
WITH TWO TRIALS TO GO.
WE’RE ABOUT TO HEAR DIRECTLY
FROM THIS JOURNALIST BREAKING
THE MANAFORT STORY.
AND I’M JOINT BY MAIA WILEY,
FROM NEW YORK CITY AND I HAVE A
SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT HER
AND THE PERSON WHO SECURED THIS
PLEA DEAL AND FROM THE "WALL
STREET JOURNAL," BREAKING THIS
STORY AND WE ADD ANOTHER "WALL
STREET JOURNAL" BREAKING THIS
STORY.
STORY. JOINING US BY PHONE, THANK YOU
FOR HOPPING ON THE LINE AFTER
THIS BIG SCOOP I THINK EVERYONE
WILL BE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT.
WHAT DO YOU SEE AS IMPORT,
SIGNIFICANCE OF PAUL MANAFORT’S
LAWYERS WERE DISCUSSING WITH
MUELLER TO NEGOTIATE A DEAL ON
THE D.C. CHARGES?
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
IT DOES LOOK LIKE THERE IS A
LITTLE BIT OF CHUNK IN THE ARMOR
SO TO SPEAK.
I DON’T WANT TO READ TOO MUCH
INTO THIS.
INTO THIS. IT IS RELATIVELY COMMON YOU WENT
DOWN TO THE WIRE AND WENT
THROUGH A VERY GRUELING TRIAL
AND HAVE ANOTHER GRUELING TRIAL
IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS, YOU
WANT TO EX-EXPLORE FOR POSSIBLE
OPTIONS TO GET THIS OFF THE
TABLE AND IS THERE SOME KIND OF
DEAL WE CAN REACH TO HANDLE THIS
TOGETHER AND GET HIM IN FRONT OF
THE JUDGE IN VIRGINIA TO GET
SENTENCED AND GET IT ALL OVER
WITH TOGETHER.
WITH TOGETHER. YOU MENTIONED AND WE SAID IN THE
STORY THEY DIDN’T SEEM TO REACH
A DEAL.
A DEAL. THEY ARE MOVING FORWARD TO GO
AHEAD WITH THIS WASHINGTON TRIAL
AND A POSSIBILITY OF A THIRD
TRIAL.
TRIAL. WE WILL FIND OUT IF THE
PROSECUTORS WILL RETRY THOSE
DEADLOCKED COUNTS.
DEADLOCKED COUNTS. IT DOES SUGGEST THERE IS SOME
SOFTENING OF HIS POSITION AND
MAYBE POTENTIAL FOR SOME KIND OF
DEAL.
DEAL. >> I APPRECIATE YOU DON’T WANT
TO READ TOO MUCH INTO IT.
YOU SOUND LESS EXCITED ABOUT
YOUR STORY THAN A LOT OF OTHER
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE. YOU HAVE DROPPED SOMETHING OF A
BOMBSHELL ALTHOUGH WE APPRECIATE
YOUR MEASURED AND HUMBLE
TELEPHONE STYLE.
TELEPHONE STYLE. THIS IS A BOMBSHELL BECAUSE UP
UNTIL THIS REPORT FOR MONTHS,
PAUL MANAFORT HAS BEEN THE LONE
STONE-COLD RESIST STORE.
MICHAEL COHEN WAS TELLING EVERY
REPORTER HE COULD GET HE WAS
READY TO COP A DEAL AND MANAFORT
THE OPPOSITE.
THE OPPOSITE. CAN YOU SAY WHETHER THE D.C.
NEGOTIATIONS NECESSARILY
NEGOTIATIONS NECESSARILY INCLUDED JAIL TIME OR SOME
SWEETENER IN THERE FOR MANAFORT,
AS YOU UNDERSTAND IT?
>> WE DON’T KNOW THE TERMS ON
THE TABLE AT THIS POINT.
ALWAYS, WHEN YOU’RE GOING TO
REACH A DEAL TO SOME EXTENT THEY
ARE GOING TO DROP SOME OF THE
CHARGES YOU FACE SO HE WOULD
NEVER HAVE LIKELY HAD TO HAVE
PLED TO EVERYTHING ON THE TABLE.
WE DON’T KNOW AT THIS POINT WHAT
WAS SPECIFICALLY ON THE TABLE.
>> STAY WITH ME.
I WANT TO BRING IN OUR PANEL AND
MAIA WILEY, FIRST, YOUR REACTION
AND ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO
KNOW WITH ARUNA ON THE LINE WITH
US ABOUT WHAT SHE FOUND.
>> FIRST, FOR ALL THE REASONS
YOU ALREADY SAID, ARI, AMAZING
HOW YOU LOSE FRIENDS WHEN THOSE
FRIENDS ARE FACING PRISON TIME.
NOT SURPRISING MANAFORT WAS
SOFTENING.
SOFTENING. WE DON’T YET KNOW WHETHER THERE
WILL BE CONTINUING DISCUSSIONS.
WE SHOULDN’T ASSUME JUST BECAUSE
THEY BROKE DOWN AT THIS POINT
THEY WON’T CONTINUE.
ONE THING I WANT TO KNOW, DO WE
HAVE ANY SENSE THERE ARE
CONTINUING CONVERSATIONS.
CONTINUING CONVERSATIONS. JUST BECAUSE PROSECUTORS ARE
GETTING READY TO CONTINUE WITH A
TRIAL THAT’S BEEN BOOKED DOESN’T
MEAN THERE AREN’T CONTINUING
NEGOTIATIONS GOING ON.
THE OTHER THING WE DON’T KNOW,
MAYBE MANAFORT DIDN’T OFFER
ENOUGH.
ENOUGH. THAT’S ACTUALLY A POSSIBILITY.
I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF THEY
WEREN’T NECESSARILY LOOKING TO
WHAT DONALD TRUMP MIGHT BE
WILLING TO DO AT THE SAME TIME
TRYING TO HEDGE HIS BETS WITH
WHAT HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO
NEGOTIATE WITH PROSECUTORS.
>> WHEN YOU HEAR THIS AND ARUNA
USED THE LANGUAGE, MAYBE THEY
COULD WRAP IT UP AT ONCE, THEY
DIDN’T THINK HE WAS GETTING A
MISTRIAL ON CHARGES, SAYING, YOU
ALREADY ARE ABOUT TO GET JAIL
TIME HERE AND DO YOU WANT TO
WRAP IT TOGETHER.
PLEA DEALS HAPPEN WHEN IT IS
GOOD FOR BOTH SIDES.
MUELLER LIMIT THIS EXPOSURE AND
MANAFORT, THE TIME.
WERE THE TALKS FOR A STRAIGHT
PLEA OR TALKS FOR A COOPERATION
PLEA.
PLEA. IF THERE WAS SOME TALK OF
COOPERATION BEING PART OF A PLEA
THAT’S A MUCH BIGGER DEAL.
>> GO AHEAD.
>> WE DON’T KNOW THOSE TERMS.
ALL WE KNOW IS THEY DID HAVE
SOME TALKS TO DISCUSS.
THAT IS THE BIGGEST QUESTION,
PLEAD OUT TO COUNTS AND GET
SENTENCED OR OPEN THE DOOR TO
MORE COOPERATION.
MORE COOPERATION. WE DON’T HAVE THAT REPORTING
JUST YET.
JUST YET. >> LET ME BRING IN YOUR
COLLEAGUE, SHELBY HOLIDAY, AND
LISTEN TO ROGER STONE AND HIS
OWN VERSION OF LEAKS AND WHAT HE
THINKS IS COMING DOWN THE PIPE.
>> I PREDICTED YESTERDAY, BASED
ON EXCELLENT SOURCING, THAT THE
SPECIAL COUNSEL IS GOING TO
CHARGE DONALD TRUMP JR. WITH
LYING TO THE FBI.
>> DONALD TRUMP JR., YOU JUST
MENTIONED HIM.
MENTIONED HIM. IS MUELLER GOING AFTER HIM YET?
>> I BELIEVE SO.
NOTICE, THEY’RE NOT GOING AFTER
HIM FOR THE UNDERLYING CRIME
BECAUSE THERE IS NO CRIME, HE’S
DONE NOTHING WRONG.
>> HOW DOES THAT FIGURE INTO THE
PRESIDENT’S STATE OF MIND, IN
THE WHITE HOUSE, TALKING ABOUT
THE PARDON AND HEARING PAUL
MANAFORT IS A GOOD GUY AND
HEARING THE REPORTING THERE IS
TALKS UNDER WAY.
>> I THINK THIS IS PROBABLY
SHAKING THE WHITE HOUSE MORE
THAN WE KNOW THAT THE PRESIDENT
IS WORRIED ABOUT NOT JUST HIS
SON BUT JARED KUSHNER, WHERE
THIS MUELLER INVESTIGATION IS
GOING.
GOING. I THINK STONE IS INTERESTING, A
WELL SOURCED PERSON AND TRYING
TO DEFLECT A LOT OF HIS OWN
LEGAL PROBLEMS AND SHARE THEM
AND SPREAD THEM ONTO OTHER
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE. WE KNOW DONALD TRUMP JR. AND
ROGER STONE HAVE THINGS IN
COMMON.
COMMON. THEY BOTH COMMUNICATED WITH
THESE TWITTER ACCOUNTS CONNECTED
TO THE HACKED AND LEAKED
E-MAILS.
E-MAILS. THEY HAVE COMMUNICATIONS BOB
MUELLER IS LOOKING AT.
AS ROGER STONE IS SAYING THAT
IT’S INTERESTING IT MIRRORS THE
LEGAL ISSUES HE’S HAVING.
>> INTERESTING FROM ARUNA’S
REPORTING WE FOLLOWED THE FIRST
TRIAL AND SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS
UPLOADED DIDN’T GET A TON OF
FOCUS IN COURT BUT MORE
INTERESTING BECAUSE THEY CONNECT
MANAFORT TO CONSTANTINE,
INDICTED IN THE SECOND TRIAL AND
WE SAW REPORTS UP TO 2017 BANK
ACCOUNTS CONNECTING THOSE TWO.
>> TO PUT IT IN A SINGLE WORD,
YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT RUSSIA.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. THE D.C. TRIAL WAS GOING TO DEAL
MORE WITH RUSSIA THAN TAX
EVASION.
EVASION. >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> LAURA.
>> LAURA. >> PULLING BACK HERE, IT SEEMS
THE LEGAL PROCESS SEEMS TO BE
PLAYING OUT AS IT SHOULD, AND,
WHEREAS THE POLITICAL PROCESS IS
NOT ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN ANY
KIND OF NORMAL WAY.
I’M AT THIS POINT BECOMING FAR
MORE CONCERNED WITH WHAT IS
GOING ON OR ISN’T HAPPENING IN
CONGRESS, ESPECIALLY AMONG
REPUBLICANS, THAN THE LEGAL
SYSTEM.
SYSTEM. SOME BRANCHES OF OUR GOVERNMENT
ARE WORKING AND SOME ARE NOT.
THEY KEEP -- REPUBLICANS IN
CONGRESS KEEP MOVING THAT RED
LINE IN TERMS OF WHEN THEY ARE
WILLING TO DISCUSS IMPEACHMENT,
WHEN THEY’RE WILLING TO ADMIT
THAT MAYBE THE PRESIDENT HAS
GONE TOO FAR.
I JUST FEAR THAT GIVEN WHERE THE
REPUBLICAN BASE IS AND GIVEN THE
INSTINCT FOR SELF-PRESERVATION
ABOVE COUNTRY, THAT THAT -- THIS
MAY TAKE US IN A VERY SCARY
PLACE.
PLACE. THERE’S A WORLD IN WHICH THE
LEGAL PROCESS MAY PLAY OUT, WE
MAY FIND ENORMOUSLY HISTORIC AND
TRAGIC EVIDENCE OF WRONGDOING
FROM THE WHITE HOUSE, WHICH
WE’RE ALREADY STARTING TO SEE,
ALTHOUGH NOT WITH THE PRESIDENT
HIMSELF AND YET CONGRESS MAY DO
NOTHING.
NOTHING. >> THIS IS THE MIND STATE OF THE
PRESIDENT FROM THIS SHERMAN
REPORT TONIGHT.
REPORT TONIGHT. BILL SHINE THE FORMER FOX
EXECUTIVE INSIDE THE WHITE HOUSE
SAYS THE EMOTIONAL STATE OF THE
PRESIDENT IS VERY TENDER LIKE A
SOFT HIGH QUALITY CUT OF MEET
AND TRUMP SPENT THE WEEKEND
CALLING PEOPLE AND SCREAMING.
SOURCES SAYING HE QUOTE FEELS
CORNERED WITH MOW CLEAR WAY OUT.
HOW DO YOU PUT THAT IN THE
CONTEXT THAT EMOTIONAL STATE WE
HAVE AN UNUSUAL PRESIDENT WHO
HAS DIFFICULTIES DEALING WITH
HIS OWN EMOTIONS AND OFTEN LEADS
HIM TO MAKE MISTAKES AGAINST HIS
OWN INTERESTS.
OWN INTERESTS. HOW DO YOU COUPLE THAT WITH WHEN
HE HEARS REPORTING THIS HOUR
PAUL MANAFORT IS CONSIDERING A
DEAL.
DEAL. >> I THINK WE WOULD ALL LIKE A
COMMANDER IN CHIEF IN A LITTLE
COOLER UNDER PRESSURE AND HOLD
HIS POKER FACE BETTER.
THINK ABOUT THE LEGAL TROUBLES
SWIRLING AROUND THE PRESIDENT
NOW.
NOW. WE HAVE MANAFORT, COHEN,
RUSTLEBERG, PECKER, THE STATE
AGA AND MANHATTAN.
THERE IS A STORM AROUND THIS
PRESIDENT UNLIKE WE HAVE EVER
SEEN.
SEEN. IT’S OF HIS OWN MAKING.
HE NEEDS TO GET AND LISTEN TO
SOLID LEGAL ADVICE.
>> AS ALWAYS, WHEN WE GET THESE
TANTALIZING REPORTS, THE
QUESTION ABOUT SO MANY MOVIES
ABOUT CRIME IN THE MAFIA, WHO
BENEFITS.
BENEFITS. AS A GOOD REPORTER, YOU’RE NOT
GOING TO GET INTO ANY HINTS
ABOUT YOUR SOURCES BUT THE
MUELLER TEAM IS FAMOUSLY
TIGHT-LIPPED.
TIGHT-LIPPED. THIS LEAK IS COMING OUT NOW.
WITHIN THE BOUNDS YOU CAN SHARE,
CAN YOU TELL US WHY SOMETHING
LIKE THIS MIGHT BE COMING OUT
AND WHAT IF ANYTHING YOU CAN
TELL US ABOUT THE TANTALIZING
ARGUMENT IN YOUR SENTENCES,
THESE TALKS WERE STALLED BY
ISSUES RAISED BY MUELLER BUT YOU
COULDN’T DETERMINE WHAT THE
ISSUES WERE.
ISSUES WERE. >> I’M SORRY.
I CAN’T GET INTO THAT TOO MUCH.
AT THIS POINT, WE DON’T KNOW
WHAT THE ISSUES WERE, JUST KNOW
THEY DID HOLD THESE TALK, AND
CONSIDERING TRYING TO MAKE A
DEAL AND THAT’S THE EXTENT OF
WHAT WE KNOW RIGHT NOW.
>> THANK YOU.