We are following new
developments in the mar-a-lago
documents case.
CNN has learned that the
justice department's attempt to
hold the former president in
contempt for actions after the
FBI search in August, that has
failed.
The justice department had
sought this, believing that
trump had not fully complied
with the grand jury subpoena to
turn over classified documents
from his presidency.
Let's discuss now with trump's
former attorney, Michael Cohen.
He is the author of revenge,
how Donald Trump weaponize the
U.S. Department of justice
against his critics and the
host of the podcast --
Michael, great to see you back.
Much appreciated as always.
I know I think I have asked you
this 100,000 times, but I will
ask it again.
Do you think trump will ever
face justice on this issue?
Or any of these other issues?
>> So, the answer to that is
yes.
In fact, I believe, of all of
the litigation that is
currently plaguing the former
president, I believe that this
one with the justice department,
the one regarding the
mar-a-lago raid, is by far the
most serious.
And I also believe that it is
the easiest for doj to prove.
Look.
Let's just run through it real
quick.
Over a year and a half ago,
they requested a document
return.
They said, no.
We don't have any.
Turns out he did.
Then, they give some back.
Then, they turn to get a
justice to sign off on a
warrant.
They execute.
They get more documents back.
He then has an attorney sign an
affidavit stating, everything
has been returned.
And now we find even additional
documents that were being
stored in a storage facility in
west palm beach.
I mean, this is absolutely
against the rules.
It's against the law.
They have done everything that
they could to employ him to
return what is not his.
He did not do it.
And at the end of the day, I
think this is by far the
easiest case to prove and it
also carries a criminal
consequence.
>> And trump's team, just to
dovetail off what you are
saying, trump's team did find
two documents, with classified
markings in a Florida storage
unit, and they turn those over.
Knowing him as you do, was this
Justin oops, you know, we
forgot about that over there
and that storage units?
What do you think is going on?
>> [Laughter] First of all,
there is no hoops.
At the end of the day, these
are top secret, classified
documents that you not belong
to him.
It's not like you can make the
claim that I did not know they
were top secret.
They are marked a top secret.
Could you just imagine if,
hypothetically, and I've used
this line before, but
hypothetically they didn't make
the payments on to the storage
facility?
And in a storage wars type
scenario, somebody opens up,
they buy the storage facility,
and you get Mike Tyson's belt,
Tom Brady's helmet, a couple of
footballs and baseballs.
And you get top secret
documentation that tells you,
for example, maybe where our
nuclear silos are.
I mean, this is not a joke.
That is why the consequences
are significant.
And they are criminal in
nature.
Look Jim, you have been down
this road as well, if that was
you who took those documents,
if that was you or I or anybody
else, that put the minister
each facility, this
conversation would not even be
happening right now.
We would already be in
handcuffs and locked up.
>> Yeah, you can have
classified documents showing up
at a pawn shop.
That should be pretty clear cut
case.
But Michael, tomorrow, the
January six committee is set to
meet on whether they will make
criminal referrals for four
people in addition to trump.
CNN has learned those people
are former white house chief of
staff Mike what meadows, John
Eastman, former --
Jeffrey Clark, and trump's
former lawyer Rudy Giuliani.
As someone who has served a
hard time for things done in
service to trump, what do you
say to that --
those four?
>> I warned you, when I
testified before the house
oversight committee.
I warned not just the members
that were there, Republicans
specifically, but I was warning
the entire world.
Each and every one of those for
individuals.
Anything that you think
happened to you in the service
of Donald Trump will happen to
you.
And he does not care about any
one of them.
He is just happy for them to go
to prison, to lose their law
license, to lose their families
happiness, as long as it's not
him.
This is a man who refuses to
accept consequences for this or
for anything.
>> It is a part of trump
strategy that --
to have sacrificial lambs?
Because it delays justice
coming for him?
>> Yeah, well, it is always for
Donald about delay, delay,
delay and deflect, deflect,
deflect.
He will claim that Rudy
Giuliani had nothing to do with
him.
It had to do with Rudy Giuliani
doing other things.
He'll say the same for Eastman,
Clark, or whoever it might be.
It doesn't matter.
Donald's playbook, as I talk
about in revenge, it is out
there.
We all know.
It I put it out there for
everybody to read and you
understand.
It is the same from last month
as it will be this month.
The same form a year ago or two
years ago as it will be this
month.
There is really nothing new
here.
It is just a different scenario,
same play.
>> And Michael, the other thing
that happened this week.
A Manhattan jury found two
trump organization companies
but guilty on multiple charges
of criminal tax fraud,
falsifying records.
How big of a blow was this to
his company?
A company that you spent some
time around.
>> This is a very big issue.
And good for the jury that they
were able to come back and hold
the company accountable for all
of the criminal matters that
they have been charged with.
The problem that I see here is
it is very difficult to indict
a company and hold a company
accountable.
You can't.
It is an eye MC.
It is a piece of paper.
What about the upon amiss
company?
What about its president and
CEO?
Why is Donald not being held
accountable?
And despite the fact that Allen
weisselberg was warned and
sternly, at that, that if you
live in does not cooperate
fully with the district
attorney's case, then, he could
potentially be looking at a
very significant sentence.
Nevertheless, Allen weisselberg
did not tell the truth.
He did not acknowledge that
Donald Trump knew every single
thing that was going on.
In fact, he fell on the sword.
And through Jeff Mcconney onto
the sword as well.
I certainly hope that Alvin --
as they are going through this
case now, and as they are
potentially bringing additional
cases against Donald himself
personally, I understand that
they are looking at that --
I do hope that they do it.
And if they have any questions,
they can certainly reach out to
me.
And it will just add to the 13
times that I've already spoken
to them.
>> I know you have been busy in
that regard.
Let me ask you this.
Slightly different subject.
As you know, Michael, trump
faced significant backlash for
a dinner at mar-a-lago with
holocaust denier and white
nationalist, Nick Fuentes, as
well as Kanye west, who has
also made antisemitic remarks.
Just yesterday on truth social,
not that we want to promote
that particular platform, trump
posted this.
Saying, jewish leaders forgot
that I was the best by far
president for Israel.
They should be ashamed of
themselves.
What do you make of all of this?
Can you tell us about the type
of people who are able to get
access to trump?
And why is it that he seems to
have some pretty glaring
insensitivity's here?
He makes these comments over
and over again about the jewish
community and jewish leaders.
>> Because Donald Trump is a
narcissistic sociopath.
Again, he does not care about
anyone.
Feelings?
For Donald, there is no such
thing as feelings!
And, you know, why he is having
dinner with Nick Fuentes, who
is a white supremacist, the
same reason why he refuses to
denounce David duke.
Donald Trump is a stated,
before the house oversight
committee, in my opening
statement --
Donald Trump is a racist.
Plain and simple.
And as far as Kanye, I cannot
figure out what he is doing,
why he is doing what he is
doing.
Terrible mistake.
It's like watching a train
crash.
Nick Fuentes is even hanging
out with Kanye makes no sense
at all.
I mean, this is the weirdest
white supremacist I have ever
met in my entire life.
I mean, it's almost like a
David Chappelle's show.
>> It certainly not the launch
that trump had in 2016.
This is just exploding on the
launchpad.
>> Look, everybody thing to me,
oh Michael, you have made
claims that you don't believe
Donald Trump is going to run.
And you have been right on so
many things.
How could you be wrong about
this one?
Well, I don't believe yet that
I am wrong.
In fact, all he has done --
you can talk about this
probably better than I.
All he has done is file a
single piece of paper, making
an announcement that he is
running for the presidency of
the United States as a
Republican.
And he is looking for the
nomination.
Okay.
Who is his campaign manager?
Who's his finance director?
Who is his press secretary?
Who's a schedule?
Where is his staff?
There is none.
And you know why there isn't
any?
Because he's going to use that
announcement to continue the
big breath, the great grift of
Donald, and more people are
going to continue to send in
more money under the guise that
he is going to run.
And at the end of the day, I
don't believe he is going to
run.
And also, I don't believe he's
going to be able to run with
all the litigation and the
sedition that he is committed
against this country.
I don't believe he's going to
be able to run.
>> All, right Michael Cohen, we