(chill music)
- So welcome, I'm Carolyn Giardina.
Today we have Rachel Morrison, who shot Black Panther,
James Laxton, who shot If Beale Street Could Talk,
and Lukasz Zal, who shot Cold War, welcome.
- Thank you. - Thank you.
- Thank you very much. - Thank you.
- First question,
obviously the director/cinematographer relationship
is one of the most important on a production.
But you're not always going to agree on everything.
What happens when you disagree?
- Depends on the director. (laughing)
- What was it in the case with you and Ryan when you--
- [Rachel] Ryan is just the most humble, respectful director
I could dream of working with, so I think we bring out
the best in each other, I hope, but also when we don't agree
it's done with respect and it's sort of navigating.
Usually ends up with him being try it both ways.
You know, and then we go from there.
- Working with him, you shot Fruitvale Station,
which was a smaller movie, but Black Panther was...
- Massive. - Different animals, so,
what was the transition like for the two of you?
- Well, you know, Ryan had Creed as the middle ground.
I actually, you know, went from pretty much indies
to Black Panther with nothing in the middle,
so it was a bit of a, you know, learning curve for me, but.
It's funny, it's like you realize that
it's just putting one foot in front of the other as,
you know, as long as you have an open line of communication,
you know, through all of your departments and also,
you know, in this case with VFX
and with production designs that, you know,
when there is blue screen out the window,
you know what it's going to be
and you're lighting in a way that makes sense
and I think just as with the communication there,
it's actually, it's a lot more straight-forward than
maybe I would've thought going into it.
(dramatic music)
(African singing)
- Now James, you and Barry Jenkins
similarly have worked together, obviously on Moonlight,
you went to school together. (laughs)
- That's right, yeah. - What is that like?
- [James] It's wonderful, I mean,
I feel very lucky to have that relationship with Barry.
I mean, I've known him since I was 20, he was 21,
and we learned to do this thing together,
I mean we didn't know how to make films
before we met each other and then we sort of, you know,
while getting to know each other
and becoming really close friends,
we also learned to make films together.
And so I think there's something that's kind of
precious about that, where,
you know, we share a bit of a dialect, I'd say,
in some respects.
That when every film and every filmmaker,
and every relationship with his photographer
is a bit of a, of a language you develop together
and I think, on some level because we could've
learned the craft at the same time with one another,
there's a language and a dialect specific
to our relationship that I think is very special.
- How is he? - He's just the same.
- See the lawyer? - Not today.
I have to go on Monday.
Mama?
- Yeah, baby?
- Could you tell us a story about Beale Street,
something that, a shorthand that you share, or?
- It's tough to, it's really funny,
it's tough to describe a shorthand with Barry because,
you know, a lot of it is intuitive.
I think again, because we have this history together.
There's a great deal of trust that happens on the set
with the, with the, with us, and you know when,
you know, going back to your first question little bit,
when you don't agree, it's interesting with Barry because
sometimes we won't, and when that happens a lot of...
Because of that trust, there's a sense of like,
I may not understand right now what you're gettin' at,
and you may not understand what I'm gettin' at this moment,
but if we just like allow each other some space to create
for the next like, say 15 minutes?
Oh of, oh I get it, sorry, no no no no,
I understand what you mean.
And then, and he'll, I'm sure that it goes back and forth
between the two of us that way and so,
you know, I think it's that, that like,
that giving nature that each of us share a little bit
with, with each other, again, going back to
the history that kind of helps us through those moments.
- So I think was, with Pawel,
I always shot second films so, this one,
we have a like-- - And Ida was the first?
- If it was the first and I was kind of,
that was really amazing situation because I,
I was to be a camera operator with, in Ida, so.
And I became a DOP, so it was completely different
so we just, we might a little bit, you know.
It was amazing, I mean, from the beginning we just
start to work together and I realize how Pawel works
and I see like his way of working, so I think.
And with this film I think we had
that really kind of a shorthand because we,
we do not disagree, I think, we have a, it's not a,
rather more creative process because Pawel invites DOP
like actors and the rest of the crew.
Show them how to dance, to fantasize together,
so we're just, we're spending a lot of time preparing,
we're talking a lot, going through the script,
it's very special process, so it's rather not disagree, but
I think it's very symbiotic.
It's very like a close relations, a friendship and we,
we just spend a lot of time together and talking a lot,
not only about how we will do the scene,
but also about script and I mean it's,
in general, I think film, so.
I think it's an amazing friendship.
- Yeah, I mean, I think the interesting thing about film
is that there is no right or wrong, so it's all subjective,
so it becomes more of an exploration than
even really disagreeing over anything 'cause there's no,
there's no right answer.
- [Lukasz] And it's not, I think it's not,
not a point to disagree because I, very often like,
when I want something from, from this point
but he's asking me, but look, maybe this point.
And sometime it's just we, we meet in the middle,
because we just do like this, and then after some time,
okay, but maybe just a bit like this, and it's, you see,
you know, this is the perfect angle--
- [James] Maybe it's a fourth point
that you need to discover-- - Yeah, maybe a fourth point.
- Through that process, yeah. - Yeah, but I think exactly,
that process, I think that's the whole process is just to,
you know, just to prepare everything that it should go in,
in the right direction, and that's...
- Right.
Now, like Ida, Cold War is a black and white film.
What drove the creative decision?
- Well drove to black and white because
I think that Poland was black and white,
that was the first, first thing.
And we did add time to color, but very quickly we realized
that it's going to be kind of a,
it will look like a Soviet stock or,
I mean it will be something like this stylized film with,
I mean, bleached colors and pastels and.
And I think that black and white is,
is most honest, it's like a war wolf,
more interpretation of the, of the, of the, of the war.
And then of course you wanted to
link to the films from the period.
- Did you watch, were there certain films that inspired
the look of the film?
- We watch, I mean we watch a lot of films,
I think in general, we watching a lot of films
and have to this backpacks of film when about to,
we, we, we watched Casablanca.
We watched Godard films,
we spent a lot of time just watching a lot of archives
and photographies and.
Helmut Newton photography and Ralph Gibson was,
was inspiration for a graying, for a contrast,
because we knew that we wanted
to make a different film than Ida, completely different.
I mean, it no ended up completely, but just.
Film which will be, how much, will be high,
get the contrast much higher, so when you,
that make, you want to make a different film, so.
Yeah, but we watch a lot, a lot, and also Tarkovsky's film,
that is inspiration there, but.
- Would you talk a little bit also your approach to framing,
you made such interesting framing choices.
- Mhm.
So, because, you know, I believe that three by four,
three by four, I mean, in this format it, with,
it keeps you, I think, more creativating in framing
because I think we get used to using this,
the widescreen formats and we, we're very getting used to
this putting people in certain points, in golden points,
and I think when you are framing like this you can,
framing sometimes giving more space, more headrooms,
or just, I think, framing a little bit different
and typical, just you can...
And also pull the camera higher and give equal importance
to the set because I think we wanted to just,
just show and tell a little bit more about surroundings,
so not only about people, but also about the surroundings,
that is why we are doing most you
scenes with one or two shots.
(speaking French)
- What is part of the look of Beale Street?
- Lots of things, I think a lot of the,
the references Barry and I talked about
when going to Beale Street,
a lot of them were from still photos, actually.
I think during the development process for us
we looked at a lot of photos from the era.
Trying to get specific into Harlem specifically of the era,
and you know, there were a lot of moments
where we're sort of...
You know, a lot of ways we think about light
and color in that film, I think stem from that, largely.
Just a lot of the research, specifically, yeah.
- And creating the Marvel universe, for you.
- [Rachel] I mean, I think, probably our
greatest source of inspiration was Africa,
you know, we all spent some time there
going into it and, you know, like,
we were pulling from real places and real people and,
and experiences that we had together there.
But, you know, Ryan's sort of runs the gamut,
everything from, you know, The Godfather, believe it or not,
to movies like Samsara, Timbuktu,
yeah there was, it was really kind of all over the map.
But, you know, it's also...
Ryan has, there's a sensibility that, that,
I guess this goes back to the shorthand and
at the end of the day, you know, in terms of lens choices
and things like that, you know, I know,
I know he likes the 30 mil, you know,
and that is never going to change, so,
it's, that was maybe more of an inspiration for lighting
and for color pallette and things like that, but.
You know, some of our camera choices are just sort of,
it's the way, it's the way that sort of,
he explores the world and feels like
we can make an experiential movie.
- A year ago when you joined us here for Mudbound,
and since then you've became the first woman to be nominated
for an Oscar in cinematography,
how has your career changed in the last year?
- I don't know if my career has changed.
I mean, I guess, you know, I can get in the door
on some of these bigger films,
but I don't know that they're necessarily what I'm
lining up to do.
You know, I think Black Panther was really special
in that it had a message behind it,
and there was a real social impact component and
I can't say that for every tent-pole movie.
I think, you know, the visibility has changed
and there's a platform that I, you know,
I think we can all sort of,
we're comfortable behind the lens,
I was never thrust into the spotlight in a way that I,
I wasn't prepared for?
But I also realize that that's an opportunity and, you know.
I think if anything, I've,
you know I've had my pregnancy very visibly.
And, you know, I've been sort of speaking out about
trying to have a family as well as a career.
So maybe it's changed in that way, because, you know,
when I speak people listen, I guess?
But, career-wise, you know, I don't know.
I still, I'm a drama girl, so.
I kind of go back to those roots.
- Are you seeing more opportunities for women
or more women on sets in the past year?
- Yes, absolutely.
Thankfully it does feel like that, you know,
that floodgates are starting to open.
You know, I think making the leap from small movies
to big movies seem to be happening
in a more quickly for women,
certainly than it was for me and I think that's great.
And yeah, I mean, I feel like, you know,
it used to be calling around looking for a female first AC
just to have, you know, a presence on set
and now there's a wealth of options and that's really great
and same for operators and same for DPs.
So yeah, and it does seem like that's starting to change.
- What about the two of you, are seeing more
women in more diversity on sets?
Is that something you think about when you hire your crews?
- Yeah, definitely it's something I think is, you know,
it's important for everyone
to sort of take part in this change.
And to, you know, engage with it.
Just because I happen to be a white guy
doesn't mean I don't care about the issue,
I think it's important for us to all share in that
and to sort of participate in every way.
And going to Beale Street, you know, we wanted to make sure
behind the scenes reflected what was in front of the camera.
And it was definitely something we wanted to make sure
we were, you know, curating an experience for everybody.
To, you know, feel like, A, they're a part of the process,
and also to make sure that it's not just, you know,
people like myself tryin' to present a world that,
you know, I'm a guest in, for example.
You know, goin' into Harlem, I felt very welcomed, but,
you know, I need to also participate back,
to give back to spaces like that, so.
You know, makin' choices about who was on my team
and things like that, definitely.
- Are you seeing more women and more diversity on set?
- Yeah, I think so, I think in Poland maybe it's not so,
maybe it's not so, I think it's not so quickly like here,
but yeah, I see, I see, and I also starts try to work of
fate because I first I would have one and that was,
Focus Burn, and I really liked to work with her, so,
of course, I see it is, but I think is, is not changing as,
as like here in the US, I think, but yes, of course I see.
I see this, and I'm very happy to see
and when doing Cold War we have a,
electrician who was a women electrician and,
and I was really happy when I saw her on the sets.
- For each of you, if you could select a director
to work with that you haven't worked with before,
who would you like to and why?
- Yeah, I don't know.
For Tarkovsky, I'd like to work.
- [Rachel] I was going to say, for, it, non, non-living,
we'll fight over Tarkovsky, and then living,
maybe Wong Kar-wai?
I mean, that would be such a...
- PT Anderson. - Using the opportunity
to do something different, you know?
- Paul Thomas Anderson. - And Paul Thomas Anderson.
- Tarkovsky, but I feel like he wasn't
very easy collaborator, I've heard. (laughs)
I mean, but, I would love, I would love to work with him.
- I have no idea, yeah. (laughing)
I don't, my brain doesn't work that way.
I don't, I don't like-- - Yeah, it's so hard.
- I don't think about like what, you know, it's something,
it's not how I choose projects per se, it's not, you know.
- Last question, what film or genre inspired you
to get into the film business?
- It's funny, my journey in the film business
is a bit different.
My mother's in the business,
so I kind of came into it differently.
And it wasn't a film--
- Yeah, I worked with your mother.
- That's right, that's right. - Oh really?
- His mother Aggie was the costume designer on Fruitvale.
And Star Wars. (laughing)
Might've heard of it.
- So I kind of came in a different way, it wasn't films,
it was actually the filmmaking process
that brought me into wanting to do this.
It was sort of being on set and realizing
the energy and the creative spirit that exists,
that's the thing I first fell in love with, actually.
Was less so the product,
but more the making of these things I thought.
To me that was so fascinating as a child and,
you know, spent a lot of time on set as a, you know,
as a 10-year-old, 12-year-old, 13-year-old
and those are the first moments I remember being sort of,
caught the bug, you know, so to speak.
- For me it was an obscure French-Canadian film called Leolo
that, you know, was my discovery
that there were films outside of the,
you know, I sort of grew up
only knowing the tent-pole experience and then
I discovered that there were foreign films and indie films
and that was, that was the gateway for me.
- For me it was Stalker.
I was a photographer, and when I was watching Stalker
I started to feel jealous for filmmakers.
And I remember a scene where they are entering the zone
and yeah, that was the moment, I think.
One of those films.
- Well I think we're out of time,
but thank you for joining us.
- Thank you. - Our pleasure.
- Thank you. - Thank you.