♪♪
CHARLES: WE ARE BACK WITH THIS
SPECIAL EDITION OF
"MAKING MONEY."
OUR TOWN HALL ON CAPITALISM AND
SOCIALISM.
BACK WITH US BIANCA CUNNINGHAM
AND RICHARD WOLFF.
THEY'RE REPRESENTING THE
SOCIALISM SIDE.
HERMAN CAIN IS HERE REPRESENTING
THE SIDE OF CAPITALISM.
JOINING US OUR VERY OWN NEIL
CAVUTO HOST OF COAST TO COAST ON
FOX BUSINESS NETWORK AND
"CAVUTO LIVE" ON SATURDAYS, BOTH
OF THOSE ON FOX NEWS.
IF YOU THINK HE WORKS HARD, THAT
IS WHO HE IS.
AT 17 HE WAS MANAGER OF ARTHUR
TEACHER'S FISH AND CHIPS WHILE
STILL IN HIGH SCHOOL.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
YOU KNOW THEY WENT OUT OF
BUSINESS BECAUSE OF ME.
I ATE ALL THEIR FOOD.
CHARLES: I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE
THE RIGHT PERSON FOR CAPITALISM.
>> EXACTLY.
IS STUART OKAY?
CHARLES: I GAVE HIM A SHOT JACK
DANIELS ON THE WAY OUT.
HE WILL THINK ABOUT IT.
HE WANTS TO TALK TO THIS KID
OVER HERE.
>> THAT WAS A GREAT SEGMENT.
CHARLES: IT WAS.
BY THE WAY GET BACK TO THE
AUDIENCE AND THEIR GREAT
QUESTIONS.
I WANT TO START WITH GREG, HE IS
A COLLEGE STUDENT.
GREG, WHAT IS ON YOUR MIND?
>> HELLO, MY QUESTION FOR YOU
GUYS IS, HOW CLOSE CAN WE AS A
NATION COME TO ACHIEVING PURE,
PERFECT CAPITALISM, WHICH IS NO
TAXATION, PERFECTLY PRIVATIZED
INDUSTRIES?
BECAUSE WHAT WE DO WE LOOK AT
THE LEFT, HEY, SOCIALISM,
COMMUNISM, HOW FAR LEFT CAN WE
GO.
LET'S LOOK HOW FAR RIGHT WE CAN
GO AT LEAST IN THE UNITED
STATES?
CHARLES: HERMAN, I HAVE TO POSE
THAT ONE TO YOU, PERFECT
CAPITALISM?
JUST AS I SAID THERE ARE SO MANY
DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF SOCIALISM
EMERGING, THERE IS LOT OF
VERSIONS OF CAPITALISM EXIST
FROM CRONY TO EVERYTHING ELSE.
IS THERE SUCH A THING AS PURE
CAPITALISM?
>> NO.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PURE
CAPITALISM BECAUSE WE HAVE
TAXES, BECAUSE WE HAVE LAWS, AND
BECAUSE WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO
CHEAT.
BUT THE CAPITALISM, THE
IMPERFECTION IN CAPITALISM IS
THIS FAR AWAY, BIG GAP BETWEEN
THAT AND IMPERFECTIONS IN
SOCIALISM.
THE C IN CAPITALISM STANDS FOR
COMPETITION.
THE IN SOCIALISM STANDS FOR
STATE CONTROL.
THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.
YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING SUCH AS
BENEVOLENT DICTATORS.
THEY DO NOT EXIST.
EVEN IN CAPITALISM, IT HAS SOME
FLAWS.
I ADMIT THAT.
BUT THAT IS WHY WE HAVE SYSTEM
OF LAWS.
THAT IS WHY WE HAVE TYPE OF
THINGS THAT WE HAVE.
THAT IS WHY WE HAVE COURT
SYSTEM.
WE HAVE CONGRESS, EXECUTIVE
BRANCH, JUDICIAL BRANCH.
THEY ARE THERE TO TRY TO KEEP
THE PLAYING FIELD LEVEL.
CHARLES: RICHARD?
>> I WANT TO TAKE OFF FROM YOUR
POINT ABOUT THERE BEING
DIFFERENT KINDS OF CAPITALISM.
THE STORY YOU TELL, THE ONE
WITHOUT TAXES, PERFECT
COMPETITION, WE TEACH THAT IN
ECONOMICS COURSES.
IT IS UTOPIAN DREAM MIGHT BE
CAPITALISM.
WE TEACH IT TO STUDENTS TO
UNDERSTAND HOW FAR FROM ACTUAL
CAPITALISM LAST 300 YEARS HAS
BEEN.
IT'S A MODEL.
IT IS AN IMAGE.
NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND, AT
LEAST I'VE NEVER ENCOUNTERED
IMAGINES IT IS EVEN POSSIBLE.
IT'S A IMAGE.
IT'S A DESIRE.
YOU MEASURE HOW FAR FROM IT YOU
HAVE GOTTEN IN, BUT REALITY IS
CAPITALISM COMPETITION FOR
EXAMPLE, WHEN ONE COMPANY WORKS
AGAINST ANOTHER, ONE OF THEN
WINS.
THE OTHER ONE GOES OUT OF
BUSINESS.
THEN WHAT IS LEFT OF THE OTHER
ONE IS BOUGHT BY THE ONE WHO
WINS.
PRETTY SOON COMPETITION MAKES
ONLY A FEW COMPANIES.
WE KNOW THAT, BECAUSE WE LIVE IN
IT.
COMPETITION PRODUCES ITS OWN
MONOPOLY WHICH BECOMES A BIG
PROBLEM.
SO WE CALL IN THE GOVERNMENT.
BUT THE NOTION OF GOVERNMENT
SOMEHOW SITTING THERE, RATHER
THAN ITSELF BEING A PRODUCT OF
THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM IS BIZARRE
WAY OF IMAGINE GOVERNMENT HAVING
NO CAUSERS OR SHAPERS OF WHAT IT
IS.
CHARLES: BY THE SAME TOKEN,
NEIL, A LOT OF FOLKS SAY FORGET
ABOUT VENEZUELA, FORGET ABOUT
CUBA, THE VERSION OF SOCIALISM
AMERICA SHOULD EMBRACE, NORWAY,
DENMARK, OR OTHER NATIONS WHERE
THE GOVERNMENT IS HEAVILY
INVOLVED WHERE TAXES ARE
SKY-HIGH AND WHILE THERE IS
TIGHT INCOME INEQUALITY, THERE
IS NOT THE TYPE OF UPWARD
MOBILITY -- YOU'RE NOT SEEING
INVENTIONS OF iPHONES IN
DENMARK.
I KNOW THEY'RE HAPPY PEOPLE,
MAYBE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T INVENT
THE iPHONE.
WE'RE NOT SEEING STUFF INVENTED
THIS COUNTRY.
>> THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE.
I DON'T THINK CAPITALISM IN
PERFECT SENSE WAS EVER WITHOUT
TAXATION IN THE DREAM SCENARIO.
I WILL SAY OF THIS, FOR ALL
CAPITALISM'S FLAWS, WE REPORT ON
IT STILL THE BEST ALTERNATIVE
OUT THERE.
NO ONE, NO TYPE AFTER SYSTEM,
OUR OWN INCLUDED HAS ENRICHED
THE WORLD TO THE DEGREE AND
RESCUED COUNTRIES AND REBUILT
WAR-TATTERED EUROPE THAN
CAPITALISM DID.
WE DID.
[APPLAUSE]
I THINK IT CAN BE SEEN AS LEFT
OR RIGHT ISSUE.
YOU'RE RIGHT TO RAISE IT BUT THE
OPPORTUNITIES PRESENTED DWARF
WHAT IS PRESENTED.
NO SOCIALIST SOCIETY HAS CREATED
THINGS THAT WE HAVE CREATED.
NO GOVERNMENT-RUN SOCIETY DONE
FOR PEOPLE WHAT WE HAVE DONE FOR
PEOPLE.
NO SOCIETY HAS CREATED THE
OPPORTUNITIES AND PROVIDED A
RAGS TO RICHES TYPE OF EXISTENCE
FOR AS MANY PEOPLE AS OUR SYSTEM
IS IT FLAWED?
YES.
DO WE HAVE EXTREMES?
ABSOLUTELY.
DO WE OVER DO IT ENRONS AND
TYCOS EXAMPLE OF PEOPLE WHO
ABUSE THE PRIVILEGE?
ABSOLUTELY.
WE REGULATE THAT, WE POLICE
THAT.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE
BETTER STANDARDS FOR MEDICINE
AND FOOD COMES WITH IT.
COMES OUT OF YOUR TAXES.
THAT IS OBLIGATION THAT
CAPITALISM HAPPILY MEETS.
CHARLES: GETS DOWN TO THE FACT
NONE OF THESE SYSTEMS ARE
PERFECT BECAUSE HUMAN BEINGS ARE
NOT PERFECT.
>> RIGHT.
CHARLES: I WANT TO GO TO DONNA
FOR THE NEXT QUESTION.
DONNA?
>> WHY ARE DEMOCRAT POLITICIANS
PRO-SOCIALISM AND GLAMORIZING IT
SEEN THROUGHOUT HISTORY COMES
FROM THE DESTRUCTION OF IT?
THERE IS REASON WHY PEOPLE ARE
FLEEING OTHER COUNTRIES FOR THE
ABILITY TO LIVE IN AMERICA.
CHARLES: I WANT TO POSE THAT TO
YOU.
I STUDIED AFRICAN NATIONS
EMBRACED SOCIALISM AFTER
INDEPENDENCE.
THE PEOPLE WHO COLONIZED
COUNTRIES LOOKED TO THEM AS
CAPITALISTS.
THEY CERTAINLY DIDN'T WANT TO
EMBRACE THAT.
SOVIET UNION LOOKED LIKE IT WAS
ON ITS WAY UP.
IT HURT THE NATIONS SEVERELY,
SEVERELY, SET THEM BACK DECADES.
WHY HAS THE ENTIRE DEMOCRATIC
PARTY TO A DEGREE EMBRACED ONE
FORM OF SOCIALISM OR ANOTHER?
SOME ARE RELUCTANT TO SAY IT,
"MEDICARE FOR ALL," PAYING OFF
ALL STUDENT DEBTS?
DO YOU THINK THAT THE NEW PARTY,
THAT WILL BE NEW DEMOCRATIC
PARTY?
>> I WILL FIRST SAY I DON'T
BELIEVE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS
EMBRACING SOCIALISM.
THAT IS WHY WE HAVE
ORGANIZATION, DEMOCRATIC
SOCIALISTS OF AMERICA PUSHING
THEM TO HOLD THE AGENDA OF THE
PEOPLE AND TO BE RESPONSIVE TO
THE ISSUES THAT WE CARE ABOUT.
NEITHER PARTY IS SERVING
EVERYDAY AMERICANS.
CHARLES: BECAUSE ELITES ON BOTH
SIDES?
>> YES.
CHARLES: BENEFITS SO MUCH FROM
THE STATUS QUO?
YOU THINK THEY'RE MAYBE GIVING
IT LIP SERVICE?
>> I THINK IT IS LIP SERVICE.
I THINK THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED
IN HAVING A REAL CONVERSATION.
THEY WILL STIFLE THE
CONVERSATION EVERY CHANCE WE
GET?
>> CAN WE HAVE A CONVERSATION
ABOUT MATH, MONEY IN, MONEY OUT.
IF YOU MAKE PROMISES THAT CAN'T
BE PAID FOR EVENTUALLY YOU RUN
OUT OF MONEY, RIGHT?
I THINK NO MATTER HOW PASSION IT
BE I DON'T GIVE A REPUBLICANS A
PASS, THEY BUILD DEFICIT AS
QUICKLY AS DID DEMOCRATS.
I JUST THINK THOUGH, WHAT IS
INCUMBENT UPON ALL THESE
CANDIDATES, RUNNING FOR
PRESIDENT, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO
PAY FOR THAT?
THAT IS ON YOU.
THAT IS ON YOUR GENERATION.
I'M FINE.
I THINK I TOLD CHARLES,
BEFOREHAND, AS LONG AS MY
SOCIAL SECURITY IS OKAY YOU'RE
PAYING INTO IT I'M OKAY WITH IT.
I GOT WORRIED THE BIRTH RATE IS
AT 32 YEAR LOW.
WE HAVE TO DO BASIC MATH.
I DON'T THINK ANY OF THOSE
CANDIDATES ARE.
CHARLES: RICH, I WANT BIANCA TO
RESPOND TO THAT.
HOW ARE ALL THE IDEAS YOU WANT,
HOW THEY WILL BE PAID FOR?
>> REAL QUESTION IS WHY WE'RE
COMPLACENT WITH CHILDREN ACROSS
THIS COUNTRY STARVING, WITH
PEOPLE BEING IN MASSIVE DEBT
COMING OUT OF SCHOOL AND HAVING
NO CHOICE BUT TO SELL YOUR WAGE
FOR --
>> HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR
IT?
TO ADDRESS THAT, IF THAT IS
WRONG YOU WANT RECTIFIED?
>> WHAT WOULD LIKE TO DO BRING
DEMOCRACY TO EVERY ASPECT OF
LIVES.
INCLUDING WORK PLACES.
UNIONS ARE THE THING THAT IS
GOING TO PUSH THESE PEOPLE AT
THE TOP TO SHARE PROFITS WITH
WORKERS WHO ARE GENERATING THAT
WEALTH.
>> BIANCA, I'M SORRY, I CAN'T BE
QUIET, CHARLES.
YOU ARE SHIFTING THE SUBJECT
WHICH IS EXACTLY HOW YOU GET
BACK TO THESE ARGUMENTS BASED
UPON SOCIALISM.
YOU'RE GOING AT IT BASED ON
EMOTIONALISM.
ALLOW ME TO FINISH.
I ALLOWED YOU TO FINISH.
GOING AT EMOTION.
TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO DON'T
HAVE FOOD TO EAT, THEY GOT TO DO
THIS AND THAT.
WE CAN FIND THOSE EXAMPLES
EVERYWHERE IN THIS COUNTRY.
WHAT I'M SIMPLY SAYING TO GO
BACK TO THE FUNDAMENTAL
QUESTION, WHICH IS WHERE WE
STARTED BEFORE YOU SHIFTED THE
SUBJECT, GO BACK TO THE FACT
EVERY ONE OF THESE PRESIDENTIAL
DEMOCRATIC WANNABES HAS AT LEAST
ONE SOCIALIST IDEA.
YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY THEY GET
AWAY WITH IT?
BECAUSE THE GENERAL PUBLIC
DOESN'T UNDERSTAND CREEPING
SOCIALISM INTO OUR SOCIETY.
CHARLES: I WILL GIVE YOU THAT.
BUT, RICHARD, WE SHOULD
ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE GENERAL
PUBLIC IS BECOMING INCREASINGLY
DISSATISFIED WITH CAPITALISM AS
WELL.
CAPITALISM IS DOING SOMETHING
WRONG TO HAVE THIS.
PEOPLE BECOME DISENCHANTED WITH
IT, FOR US TO BE HAVING THIS
SPECIAL.
>> I WILL NOT FOLLOW HERMAN
INSULTING GENERAL PUBLIC.
>> WHY ARE YOU INSULTING ME.
>> EXCUSE ME SIR.
THERE IS MORE COMING.
I AM INTERESTED IN TRYING TO
FIND THE SOLUTION TO THIS
QUESTION.
WHERE IS IT GOING TO BE PAID
FOR.
FOR ME THE SOLUTION IS NOT
HAVING THE GOVERNMENT COME IN.
THIS IS THE OLD IDEA.
THIS IS WHAT SOCIALISTS IN THE
PAST THOUGHT.
NOT WHERE I'M BOEING.
NOT WHERE I'M COMING FROM.
I WANT TO GO WHERE BIANCA GO
STARTED WITH QUESTION.
CHANGE THE WAY BUSINESSES ARE
ORGANIZED IN THE SOCIETY.
THAT IS WHERE THE PROBLEM
STARTS.
EVERY BUSINESS IS HOME, LET ME
FINISH, OF NON-DEMOCRACY.
A TERRIBLE SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE
AT THE TOP, BOARD OF DIRECTORS,
THE OWNER MAKE ALL THE KEY
DECISIONS WHAT TO PRODUCE, HOW
TO PRODUCE, WHERE TO PRODUCE,
WHAT TO DO WITH THE WORK
EVERYBODY CONTRIBUTED TO.
THAT IS NOT FAIR.
WE SHOULDN'T BE SURPRISED AT
THAT PEOPLE AT TOP GIVE
THEMSELVES LION'S SHARE OF THE
REWARDS AT THE END.
THEREIN IS THE PROBLEM.
SOCIALISM, LET ME FINISH, IS FOR
ME IS A PROGRAM TO DEMOCRATIZE
THE WORK PLACE.
IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE HISTORY OF THE
UNITED STATES.
WE'RE 200 YEARS LATE.
BETTER LATE THAN NEVER.
THAT CAN SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS.
CHARLES: THE GREAT NEWS, IF WE
DO IT NOW, WE'RE AT PEAK OF OUR
EARNINGS.
21 TRILLION-DOLLAR ECONOMY.
STOCKE MARKET NEAR ALL-TIME