Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani is now reportedly panicking and his priority is to die
a free man. To die a free man. That doesn't sound like things are going particularly well.
Rudy Giuliani is now being forced to appear before a Georgia grand jury investigating the Trump and
Associates attempts to overturn the results in November of 2020, results in which Joe Biden won
Georgia. Let me say that in a very clear way. Joe Biden won Georgia. So Joe Biden should have gotten
and did get the electoral votes from Georgia. However, Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani and Jenna
Ellis and a whole bunch of different people, Lindsey Graham, were two different degrees and
in different ways lobbying for Trump to get those electoral votes. That would have been wrong. Rudy
Giuliani now has to appear before a grand jury. He tried to having his lawyer say he can't travel.
Rudy travels all the time. Didn't make any sense. Judge didn't buy it.
He is arguably going to try to say that everything he did was as the lawyer for Trump and therefore
it's protected by attorney client privilege. It doesn't seem like it's necessarily going to work,
but we now are being told that Rudy is concerned that he may not die a free man. That is very, very
serious. I can I want to start with you. Sure. Speaker 3: As someone who worked for Rudy
Giuliani, John did also when you were Rudy Giuliani, his press secretary, the target now of
this investigation. That's a big deal and it's a big deal. And he's trying to create a smokescreen
and delay as long as possible. Listen, Rudy flew too close to the sun. He got too close to Trump.
He got burned. He knows how to do it. Speaker 1: He flew too close to the sun
on the wings of MAGA Trump ism and you can't do that and avoid getting burned forever.
Speaker 3: Jay works. He knows how the FBI works. He knows these are meticulous investigations.
I know this is not a popular position with the media, but I think we should take a wait and see
that the affidavit shouldn't be released. I'm doubling back to the earlier conversation.
I know he's I know he's nervous. He could have flown to Georgia. You know, he flies all over
the world. Yep. So that's just a typical tactic to try to postpone the inevitable. Why do you think
he's nervous about this Georgia investigation? Because he he knows the truth. He knows he lied to
legislators. He knows that he concocted this false electorate scheme. You know, he knows he lied for
his client and he knows. We all know. It's clear. Speaker 2: What's his next move?
Speaker 3: Add delay, delay, delay, kick the can down the road. I think, you know, at this point in
his life, his goal is to die a free man. Speaker 1: Can you imagine?
Look at how quickly Rudy, who was mayor, 911, beloved by everybody, even many Democrats. And
all of a sudden it's my going to die in prison or am I going to die a free man?
Speaker 3: Very stark, John. That is stark. And look, it highlights, I think, the tragedy
of his trajectory. But it's a self-inflicted tragedy. You know, the deal is that Mary was,
as Ken know, is really one of the most respected legal minds of his generation. I remember him
telling me many times that, you know, the law is about a search for the truth. And
that is not what he is is pursuing right now, not trying to evade the truth because he's afraid
of what will come up. Now he is saying, look, I was acting in the capacity as lawyer and whether
president president ultimately throws him under the bus is yet to be seen. But I will also say
that Rudy Giuliani is someone who said many times on tape from the Blue Room at City Hall that,
you know, you respect the sanctity of a grand jury. They know more than we do. And so to push
back against that as aggressively as he has and to throw around terms like fascist state is beneath
the man he was and the credibility once had. Speaker 2: To be clear, Bernard, about
the luck he's going to have pursuing this. Yes, delay, but success? Probably not. I mean, the
judge has said pick electors, you have to comply. Your congressman, Jody Hice, you have to comply.
Senator Graham, you have to show up. Exactly. So we're Rudy Giuliani. You can run,
but you can hide. Your time is up. You have now graduated to being a target and now
it's your time to appear before this grand jury. You complete the fifth. Yes,
you can decide, oh, attorney client privilege, but then you have the crime fraud exception.
But there's so much that can go on. Speaker 1: So bottom line here,
it's sort of a sad tale about Rudy Giuliani in a sense. I mean, on a personal level,
it is sad. You've got a guy who's, I think 76, 77 years old, something like that. He did have
even though he was not my political preference, he did have a good career prosecuting the Mafia,
followed by being mayor of 911 and after nine the mayor of 911, the mayor of New York City. During
911, the mayor of 911 sounds really bad. The mayor of New York City during 911. Widely seen as was
George W Bush is participating in sort of bringing the nation together and handling it well. And then
it started to get a little weird where Rudy would not stop talking about 911, no matter what the
question was for years after he was mayor, and then he attached his wagon to Trump's horse. And
that is a hell of a horse to attach your wagon to. And it is self-inflicted. So it can be both sad
and also correct that Rudy now has to deal with as he did things that he knew were were the wrong
things to do in terms of telling, lies, etc.. And he's going to have to face the consequences. These
clips are all on our Instagram, which you can find by searching Instagram for David Pakman show.