Cronkite school of journalism at
Arizona state university.
Geoff: A newly-leaked audio
recording appears to show former
president Donald Trump
discussing sensitive documents
with people who didn't have
security clearances during a
2021 meeting in bedminster, new
Jersey.
In this audio first obtained by
CNN, the former president seems
to acknowledge he knowingly held
onto a document about a
potential attack on Iran.
>> This totally wins my case.
It is highly confidential.
This is secret information.
I think we can probably --
>> We will have to see.
>> Declassified.
As president, I could have
declassified it.
Now, I can't.
Is that interesting?
Geoff: The two-minute audio
recording could hold key
evidence in trump's indictment
over his handling of classified
information after he left the
white house.
David N. Kelley is the former
United States attorney for the
southern district of New York
and is an experienced trial
lawyer and investigator.
He joins us now.
Thank you for being with us.
David: Thanks.
Geoff: On this recording which
the newshour has not
independently verified, Donald
Trump is also heard saying it is
so cool, and that the
information was classified and
highly confidential.
How might the special counsel
leverage this recording as
evidence in the indictment
against the former president?
David: I think the special
counsel would look at this
recording as if he's opening a
chest and the glow of gold
shines on his face when he sees
evidence like this.
It is really quite a recording.
It is principally two things.
One, it helps prove one of the
overt acts, namely that he
showed documents the folks who
didn't have clearances.
Two, it also speaks to his state
of mind.
It says that he knew that he
could not declassify it.
He knew he should not be showing
it.
These are all things that fly in
the face of a lot of the public
statements he is making,
including the one he made today
that he did nothing wrong.
Geoff: The episode is referenced
in the special counsel
indictment.
Donald Trump has pleaded not
guilty to the charges against
him.
How might a jury react to
hearing this audio as opposed to
just reading the transcript in
black and white?
David: You always like to have
something more real-life than
just a transcript.
Having it here -- it is really
unlikely that he will testify on
his own behalf.
I think the government will try
to use his recordings to hear
his own voice.
And not only does it bring more
life to the courtroom, but it is
a little less cumbersome than
having a transcript there and
having people read along with
it.
Having the real-life voice there
is exponentially better in terms
of form of evidence.
Geoff: Donald Trump reacted to
this lease recording today.
Here's what he told Fox News
while speaking in New Hampshire.
>> We did absolutely nothing
wrong.
It is just another hoax.
I would say election
interference more than anything
else.
Everything was fine.
We did nothing wrong and
everybody knows it.
Geoff: How do his public
statements in which he often
times admits to the thing he's
accused of, he often says I took
those documents and had every
right to take those documents --
how does that complicate his
legal case?
David: Two ways of looking at
it.
One is to say that he's making a
lot of statements that his
defense lawyer typically would
not like him to make because it
flies in the face of the defense
they would like to construct.
Because the other pieces of
evidence like this new recording
indicated he did know what he
was doing was wrong.
The other thing -- another way
to look at it, maybe from his
twisted prism is to think of it
in terms of, that he's crazy
like a fox or dumb like a fox
insofar as he really thought
what he was doing was not wrong.
The problem with that is under
all the circumstances, under all
the evidence they will present
at trial, that belief, if it was
in fact his belief, is simply
not a reasonable belief.
Geoff: We also know that
investigators from special
counsel jack Smith's office are
set to interview the Georgia
secretary of state about the
special counsel probe into
efforts to overturn the
election.
Donald Trump back in January of
2021 called him and pressed him
to find the votes that he needed
to turn that state in his favor.
Help us understand the value
that a Brad raffensperger has in
the special counsel case.
David: A couple of different
ways.
First, he is not someone who can
be painted as the defense as
having a political ax to grind.
More important, whenever you
have somebody who is on a
recording, to be there live in
the courtroom to helping slain
the context of the information,
to give the background of how
you came to have that
conversation, and what you may
have done in relation to that
conversation is important
evidence that bolsters the
strength of a pretty damming
piece of evidence, or so it
would appear.
Geoff: David, thank you for your
time and insight.
David: Thank you.
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