>>> IN TIMES OF TROUBLE OR EXTREME STRESS, WE ALL LEAN ON
OUR FRIENDS.
OUR FRIENDS. SO IT MAKES SENSE THAT AS TRUMP
ANXIOUSLY AWAITS THE MUELLER
REPORT, HE COZIES UP TO HIS
BUDDIES.
BUDDIES. AND WHO ELSE THAN THE MAN WHO
WROTE HIM BEAUTIFUL LOVE
LETTERS, NORTH KOREAN DICTATOR
KIM JONG-UN.
KIM JONG-UN. BACKTRACK A FEW STEPS YESTERDAY,
THE U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT
ANNOUNCED SANCTIONS ON TWO NORTH
KOREAN SHIPLING COMPANIES WHICH
TRUMP’S NATIONAL SECURITY
ADVISER JOHN BOLTON SAID WERE,
QUOTE, IMPORTANT ACTIONS BY THE
TREASURY DEPARTMENT BECAUSE,
QUOTE, MARITIME INDUSTRY MUST DO
MORE TO STOP NORTH KOREA’S
ELICIT SHIPPING PRACTICES.
FLASH TO TODAY, JUST A FEW HOURS
AGO, WHEN THE PRESIDENT SCRAPPED
THOSE SANCTIONS IN A SINGLE
TWEET SAYING THIS, IT WAS
ANNOUNCED TODAY BY THE U.S.
TREASURY THAT ADDITIONAL
LARGE-SCALE SANCTIONS WOULD BE
ADDED TO THE EXISTING SANCTIONS
ON NORTH KOREA.
I HAVE TODAY ORDERED THE
WITHDRAWAL OF THOSE SANCTIONS.
WHEN ASKED THE REASON BEHIND
TRUMP’S TURNAROUND, THE WHITE
HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY SAID
THIS -- PRESIDENT TRUMP LINES
CHAIRMAN KIM, AND HE DOESN’T
THINK THESE SANCTIONS WILL BE
NECESSARY.
NECESSARY. SENIOR ADVISER TO MOVE ON.ORG,
KARINE JOINS OUR CONVERSATION.
KARINE, GO.
KARINE, GO. >> YES, WE’RE ALL IN THAT SPACE
TODAY, AND ALWAYS CONSTANTLY.
LOOK, I THINK DONALD TRUMP IS
BEING PLAYED BY KIM JONG-UN AND
NOT JUST KIM JONG-UN BUT THESE
OTHER DICTATORS.
OTHER DICTATORS. AND IT BEGS THE QUESTION OF
WHAT’S HAPPENING HERE, IS IT HE
WANTS TO BE LIKE THEM?
OR DO THEY HAVE SOMETHING ON
HIM?
HIM? OR IS HE JUST WEAK?
AND IT JUST DOESN’T MAKE SENSE
AT ALL.
AT ALL. IT’S BEEN CLEAR HIS OWN
ADMINISTRATION SAID WE NEED
THESE SANCTIONS IN ORDER TO GET
TO DENUCLEARIZING NORTH KOREA.
SO WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS?
AND THAT’S WHY, MIKE, THERE’S
MORE QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS IN
ALL OF THIS.
>> THE SMART MAN SAID TO ME AT A
TABLE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS
TOWN YOU THOUGHT HE HAD BEEN
DUPED BY KIM JONG-UN.
IS THIS MORE EVIDENCE OF THAT OR
SOMETHING MORE SINISTER?
>> ABSOLUTELY, I THINK HE’S BEEN
DUPED OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS
WHEN IT COMES TO NORTH KOREA.
BUT THE DECISION TO IMPOSE
SANCTIONS ON THE COUNTRY, WHICH
WILL INCREASE AS A RESULT OF AN
INTERAGENCY PROCESS SO THE
DEPARTMENTS OF TREASURY, STATE,
DEFENSE, CONGRESS, THE
INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY AND THE
WHITE HOUSE TO DECIDE WHAT IS IN
THE BEST INTEREST OF THE U.S.
NATIONAL SECURITY.
NATIONAL SECURITY. SO A DECISION WAS MADE.
NOW MR. TRUMP TODAY ARBITRARILY,
UNILATERALLY AND I WOULD ARGUE
MINDLESSLY DECIDES TO RELAX THE
PRESSURE ON KIM JONG-UN, WHO
HASN’T DONE A SINGLE THING TO
MOVE DOWN THE ROAD OF
DENUCLEARIZATION.
DENUCLEARIZATION. SO I THINK IT JUST DEMONSTRATES
ONCE AND AGAIN HE’S WILLING TO
GIVE UP A LOT OF THINGS.
HE STOPS EXERCISES WITH OUR
PARTNERS IN THE REGION, HE DOES
ALL OF THESE THINGS AND THERE’S
BEEN NOTHING AT ALL THAT COMES
BACK FROM KIM JONG-UN.
>> BUT IS IT -- SO THE REASON HE
GAVE IS BECAUSE HE LIKES HIM.
DOES THAT SUGGEST THAT HE
DOESN’T SHARE THE GOAL OF A
DENUCLEARIZED NORTH KOREA?
OR DOES IT SUGGEST THAT HE’S SO
FEEBLE, HE’S SO LAME THAT ALL
YOU HAVE TO DO IS TELL HIM HIS
HAIR LOOKS NICE AND YOU GET WHAT
YOU WANT?
YOU WANT? >> WELL, I DON’T KNOW WHAT HE
WAS THINKING OF BUT IF IT WAS
PART OF A PACKAGE THAT, OKAY,
WE’RE NOT GOING TO IMPOSE
ADDITIONAL SANCTIONS BECAUSE
NORTH KOREA HAS DECIDED TO ALLOW
INTERNATIONAL INSPECTORS TO GO
TO A FACILITY, OR DECIDED TO
TAKE SOME SORT OF POSITIVE STEP,
THAT IS RATIONAL.
THAT MAKES SENSE.
BUT TO SAY HE’S DOING THIS
BECAUSE HE LIKES HIM, HOW DOES
THAT STAND UP TO ANY TYPE OF
LOGICAL ARGUMENT OR DEBATE ABOUT
WHAT MR. TRUMP’S LACK OF
UNDERSTANDING IS.
UNDERSTANDING IS. IF HE’S SUPPOSED TO BE THE
WORLD’S BEST NEGOTIATING, I MUST
TELL YOU HE’S BEING PLAYED OVER
AND OVER AGAIN, WHETHER IT’S BY
KIM JONG-UN, PUTIN, MOHAMMAD BIN
SALMAN OF SAUDI ARABIA AND
OTHERS.
OTHERS. HE’S JUST DRINKING IN WHAT IT IS
THEY’RE GIVING HIM.
>> YOU USED THE WORD RATIONAL
AND GEORGE CONWAY HAS BEEN A
SENIOR ADVISER, KELLYANNE
CONWAY, HAS REALLY BEEN PUSHING
THE ENVELOPE ON THIS SET OF
QUESTIONS, MR. HE’S A RATIONAL
ACTOR OR WHETHER THERE’S
SOMETHING WRONG WITH HIM.
JAMES CLAPPER, YOUR FORMER
COLLEAGUE, HAS QUESTIONED IT AT
VARIOUS POINTS IN THE PRESIDENCY
WHETHER HE SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO
THE NUCLEAR CODES.
FORMER REPUBLICAN SENATOR BOB
CORKER SUGGEST THE HE’S NOT FIT
FOR THE OFFICE HE HOLDS.
DOES THIS CONDUCT NOT -- THIS IS
BACK TO FLYNN, WHO HAD THE RIGHT
AND THE AUTHORITY TO NEGOTIATE
SANCTIONS WITH THE RUSSIANS BUT
HE LIED ABOUT IT.
THIS IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE THE
QUESTION -- THE WHY QUESTION IS
SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT.
SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. HE HAS THE AUTHORITY TO EASE
SANCTIONS BUT YOU’RE CALLING IT
IRRATIONAL.
IRRATIONAL. THERE’S NO WHY.
WE DIDN’T GET ANYTHING.
WHAT KINDS OF QUESTIONS ARE IN
YOUR MIND ABOUT THE PRESIDENT?
>> WELL, I THINK AS FRANK
FIGLIUZZI SAID, IT’S VERY
ABNORMAL BEHAVIOR, IT’S BIZARRE.
IT’S DEMONSTRATING HIS
ASSERTIVENESS THAT HE WANTS TO
BE JUST IMPETUOUS AND MAKE
DECISIONS WITHOUT THE
UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THIS IS
GOING TO REVERBERATE AS FAR AS
THE IMPACT ON U.S. NATIONAL
SECURITY.
SECURITY. SO WHETHER WE’RE TALKING ABOUT
DOMESTIC POLITICS, OR WHETHER
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE
INTERNATIONAL WORLD STAGE, I
THINK DONALD TRUMP JUST DECIDES
TO DO WHAT HE WANTS TO DO.
IT MIGHT BE BASED ON THE LAST
CONVERSATION HE HAD WITH
SOMEBODY.
SOMEBODY. I THINK HE THROWS A LOT OF
THINGS OUT JUST TO SEE WHAT THE
REACTION IS, BUT TO DEMONSTRATE
HE’S IN CONTROL.
AND THAT’S VERY, VERY DANGEROUS
FOR THIS COUNTRY THAT ONE PERSON
CAN DO THESE THINGS.
CERTAINLY HE HAS THE AUTHORITY
TO DO THESE THINGS BUT A
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
IS VESTED WITH SO MUCH AUTHORITY
AND RIGHTLY SO, HE OR SHE CAN
DEAL WITH NATIONAL SECURITY
CHALLENGES.
CHALLENGES. BUT IF THEY ARE JUST GOING TO
EXERCISE THIS WITHOUT ANY REAL
THINKING OR LOGIC OR
RATIONALITY, THAT IS DEEPLY
DISTURBING NOT JUST TO THIS
COUNTRY AND OUR CITIZENS BUT
WHEN I TALKED TO PEOPLE FROM
AROUND THE GLOBE, THEY’RE
LOOKING AT WHAT’S HAPPENING IN
WASHINGTON AND SAYING WHAT IS UP
WITH THE UNITED STATES?
WHAT IS UP WITH THIS GUY WHO’S
IN THE OVAL OFFICE?
THIS IS NOT GOOD, NOT JUST FOR
THE UNITED STATES, BUT FOR THE
WORLD.
WORLD. >> FRANK FIGLIUZZI, SMART MAN
NAMED FRANK FIGLIUZZI SAID
SOMETHING ON THIS SHOW THIS WEEK
ABOUT EARLY WARNING SIGNALS.
WITH YOU WERE TALKING
YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. I THOUGHT OF YOU WHEN I SAW THIS
REVERSAL OF THE OWN
ADMINISTRATION’S POLICY.
ADMINISTRATION’S POLICY. IS THIS THE KIND OF BEHAVIOR YOU
WERE WORRIED ABOUT?
>> I THINK IT’S BEHAVIOR THAT
SAYS IT’S ME AGAINST THE WORLD
AND I’M THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN GET
THIS RIGHT.
THIS RIGHT. I DON’T TRUST ANYTHING ELSE,
INCLUDING THE INTELLIGENCE
COMMUNITY.
COMMUNITY. AND JOHN MENTIONED OR YOU
MENTIONED THIS AS A THING OF
OPTICS.
OPTICS. DOES MY HAIR LOOK GOOD?
YES, IT DOES.
GREAT, WE’RE FRIENDS.
OPTICS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT WITH
REGARD TO NORTH KOREA.
HE KEEPS SAYING THEY HAVEN’T
TESTED -- THEY HAVEN’T FIRED A
MISSILE SINCE WE STARTED
TALKING.
TALKING. BUT HE SEEMS NOT TO WANT TO
GRASP IS THAT THEY MAY NOT NEED
TO FIRE AND TEST FIRE MISSILES
ANYMORE BECAUSE THEY’VE GOT THAT
DOWN.
DOWN. BUT AS LONG AS HE HAS SOME SORT
OF AGREEMENT WITH KIM JONG-UN
DON’T MAKE ME LOOK BAD, DON’T
FIRE ANY MISSILES THAT CAN BE ON
THE NEWS, WE’RE GOING TO BE
GOOD.
GOOD. THE OTHER THING, NICOLLE, AS
BEST AS ANYONE CAN TELL AND IT’S
STILL CONFUSING WHAT HE’S
TALKING ABOUT, HAS TO DO WITH
EASING UP ON SANCTIONS ON
CHINESE SHIPPING COMPANIES THAT
WERE HELPING NORTH KOREA GET
THEIR PARTS FOR THEIR NUCLEAR
PROGRAM.
PROGRAM. SO HE’S NOT JUST EASING UP ON
NORTH KOREA, HE’S SENDING A
MESSAGE IF COUNTRIES LIKE CHINA
WANT TO CONTINUE TO CIRCUMVENT
SANCTIONS ON NORTH KOREA, IT’S
OKAY.
OKAY. SO HE’S JUST IN ONE FELL SWOOP
HE MAY HAVE HELPED CHINA
ECONOMICALLY, AND HE MAY HAVE
HELPED NORTH KOREA RETURN TO THE
MISSILE PROGRAM.
MISSILE PROGRAM. >> IT SUGGESTS TO ME, CHUCK,
BEHAVIOR THAT MUST BE UNDER
SCRUTINY BY BE ROT MUELLER.
I WAS REMINDED TODAY OF THREE
INDIVIDUALS WHO MAY OR MAY NOT
HAVE BEEN HELPFUL OR SHARED
THEIR EXPERIENCES WITH ROBERT
MUELLER.
MUELLER. HR McMASTER, JIM MADISON, REX
TILLERSON.
TILLERSON. PEOPLE WHO HAVE SEEN HIM CONDUCT
FOREIGN POLICY UP CLOSE MAY VERY
WELL BE THE MOST ALARMED ATOF AL
>> SURE.
>> SURE. ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WE ASK WHEN
PROSECUTORS TALKING TO
WITNESSES, SOMEONE
WITNESSES, SOMEONE INVESTIGATING, TELL ME ABOUT
HIM.
HIM. HOW DOES HE BEHAVE?
YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND THE
SUBJECT P. THE
SUBJECT, THE TARGET OF THE
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. WOULD I TELL YOU THERE’S A
COUPLE OF THINGS I DESPERATELY
WANT TO READ.
ONE IS THE CLASSIFIED,
UNABRIDGED VERSION OF THE
MUELLER REPORT, WHICH I PROBABLY
WILL NEVER SEE.
THE OTHER WHICH FASCINATES ME
WOULD BE THE PROFILES THAT
COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD DEEM
OF OUR PRESIDENT.
THEY DO THAT AND JOHN KNOWS THAT
WELL.
WELL. THINGS HAVE GOT TO BE REALLY
INTERESTING DOCUMENTS, DON’T YOU
THINK, JOHN?
THINK, JOHN? >> LET’S SAY, DEAR, DEAR
PRESIDENT OF THE WHATEVER,
YOU’RE GOING TO MEET DONALD
TRUMP.
TRUMP. BUT WHAT WOULD YOU WRITE IF YOU
WERE HELPING HIM WRITE ONE?
>> THEY WOULD ADDRESS THE
PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILE THAT HE’S
BEEN ABLE TO DEVELOP.
>> TO SAY WHAT?
>> TO TALK ABOUT HOW ERRATIC HE
IS, TO TALK ABOUT HIS
NARCISSISM, I BELIEVE THEY WILL
PUT THAT IN THERE, HOW ABOUT HE
DOES THINGS TO ADVANCE HIMSELF
PERSONALLY OR POLITICALLY.
AND IT’S UNPREDICTABLE IN SOME
RESPECTS BUT PREDICTABLE IN
OTHER THINGS.
OTHER THINGS. YOU CAN ALWAYS EXPECT DONALD
TRUMP TO DO WHATEVER IS GOING TO
ADVANCE HIS INTERESTS,
IRRESPECTIVE -- AND HE’S GOING
TO LIE AND CHEAT ABOUT IT.
>> WHICH COUNTRY WROTE THE BEST
DOSSIER ON DONALD TRUMP?
IT WOULD SEEM RUSSIA’S GOTTEN
THE MOST.
THE MOST. SO MAYBE PUTIN’S PEOPLE WROTE
THE BEST ONE, RIGHT?
HE WANTS TO BUILD A TOWER HERE.
HE LIKES WHATEVER.
WHO WROTE -- WHO HAS GAME PENNED
THE BEST?
THE BEST? >> I WOULD LIKE TO READ THE
BRITISH INTELLIGENCE PROFILE OF
HIM BECAUSE BRITISH INTELLIGENCE
IS VERY GOOD.
I THINK THEY’RE VERY PERCEPTIVE
ON IT.
ON IT. I DO THINK ALL OF THESE LEADERS,
AUTHORITARIAN LEADERS HAVE BEEN
ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HIS
BEING PRONE TO FLATTERY.
BUT I THINK A LOT OF THE LEADERS
OF THE LIBERAL WESTERN
DEMOCRACIES ARE REALLY QUITE
UNSETTLED BECAUSE THEY THERE
USED TO BE STRENGTH IN
WASHINGTON IN THE SENSE YOU CAN
COUNT ON THE UNITED STATES TO
SUPPORT WHAT YOU’RE TRYING TO DO
IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, REGIONAL
OR INTERNATIONAL POLITICS.
AND THE STRATEGIC OBJECTIVES.
BUT THIS INDIVIDUAL IN THE OVAL
OFFICE, DONALD TRUMP, IS
SOMEBODY THAT IS SO DIFFERENT
FROM ANYTHING WE’VE EXPERIENCED
IN THE PAST, AND THAT’S WHY OUR
FRIENDS AND PARTNERS, I BELIEVE,
ARE WORRIED AND THE AUTOCRATS
AND AUTOAUTHORITARIANS AROUND