Well, I suppose the first question that most Australians might ask of someone in your position
is, what's it like to live in Saudi Arabia?
Yes, we often get that question, and I have a stock answer for that.
And I tell people, it's like living in Canberra. It's much better than you expect.
And you even get that question from Saudis, ones who live in Jeddah or Mecca or Medina.
And those three countries are less conservative than in Riyadh.
And they look at you and go, "Oh, how do you like living in Riyadh?"
Actually, it's great. It does get hot. Fifty degrees, in the summer, plus,
but you can get out and do exercise. And, at night, you see all these little
families dotted around the desert, around the fire, drinking coffee and having picnics.
So, they live their life there, but live in air conditioning during the day.
But, in summary, it's a really good place to be. Quite surprising.
On the surface, though, it looks like Australia and Saudi Arabia wouldn't necessarily
have very much in common. What sort of common interests do we share?
Yes, you're right. It's broader than you expect.
Firstly, Saudi Arabia's in the G20, and, of course, we're hosting the G20 next year.
So, we have common interest in the global economy.
Saudi Arabia was a founding member of the U.N. Security...of the U.N, in the '40s, and it hasn't
served in the U.N Security Council yet. It is going for the U.N. Security Council this year,
so we might be on the Council at the same time.
We also deal with it through our interest in...from our Muslim population here. Of course,
we get 3,000 or 4,000 pilgrims, Muslim pilgrims, to Mecca and Medina every year,
who are hosted by the Saudi government. And we're also a member of the
Organisation of Islamic Co-operation as a...we have a representative there.
And, so, in interfaith dialogue and other such issues we have some similar views,
and those views we don't see eye to eye on, we have a conversation about.
And so how's the trade, then, between the two countries?
It's not as good as we would expect, but it's pretty solid. In dollar terms, it's about
2.2 billion dollars. That's made up of 800 million dollars of Camrys.
Camrys made in Australia are very popular in Saudi Arabia. They last a long time and
the young kids can spin around in them on the roads...that's one of the
problems they have: a very high death toll, unfortunately.
Not because of the Camrys, but because of the abandon with which they drive.
It's a big problem. But Australia is also playing a role in solving that, because an Australian
company is providing these speed cameras, which are very unpopular at the moment in some
circles in Saudi Arabia. We also supply wheat and barley and sheep and beef. So, we seem very much
as part of their food security, which is important.
We also--the trade is 11,000 Saudi scholars studying in Australia. 11,000 plus their 6,000 family
dependents. So, that brings in a healthy income to the country, but, more importantly,
it creates thousands of ambassadors for Australia when they come back to Saudi Arabia.
And they bring back ideas, they bring back links in the business community, and they come
back as tourists, as well, so it's an important link. And we also have 5,000 or 6,000 Australians
working in Saudi Arabia in various sectors and helping out in the development
of that country, in finance, in education, and in infrastructure.
So, there's a lot going on--more than you would expect.
So, how, then, is Australia perceived in Saudi Arabia?
Yes, it depends who you ask. Most Saudis will start off talking about the kangaroos and the wildlife
and the dangerous animals that we have, and then they would then tend to talk about
sheep and the meat...Australian sheep is very popular in Saudi Arabia.
They, if you talk a little bit more to them, they would then politely raise the question of why do we
shoot camels here. Because we have, as you know, about a million feral camels. And they have seen
videos and films of these camels being shot by helicopter. And, in the Arab and Saudi culture,
camels are very dear, loving, loyal creatures, and so they get quite saddened when they see these
scenes. So, we explain that, of course, and say that it doesn't happen very much anymore.
But they're looking at importing camels to Saudi Arabia from Australia, which would be quite a
coals to Newcastle, as they say. Especially young camels, because they use them for
wedding feasts and things; it's...young camel is a very popular dish. It can be quite chewy,
but it's not too bad. It's very lean.
You know, we've heard so much over the past couple of years about the Arab Spring and the
effect that that's having across the Middle East. Is it having much of an impact in Saudi Arabia?
It has. The Saudis have managed the Arab Spring pretty cleverly, I think.
60 percent of the population is under 30. So there's a very young population age.
And these young people across the Arab world have started to mobilise, and what the Saudi
government has learned is they have to listen to their population.
So they've gone about it in several ways. Firstly, the king announced--King Abdullah--
130 billion dollars of funding to build 500,000 houses, to give everyone salary increases, to do
more training, and to do more scholarships abroad.
These 11,000 students that study in Australia is a part of a 150,000 Saudi scholars who
have been sent overseas as a part of an educational, visionary program, in my view, by
King Abdullah. So they're listening to their population.
At the same time, they're allowing the population...giving it more leeway, especially
on...in the media. So, in the media, you have, in the print media, more critical articles
of the government and of services. It's surprisingly critical, actually.
And then the social media, 23 percent of Saudis use Facebook.
They're one of the highest users of Twitter. YouTube, millions of hits every day.
And you could only...if you wanted to look on something...look at "Saudi Gangnam Style"
and you will see quite a funny video on Saudis doing Gangnam Style.
So, there's a whole range of ways in which the government is sort of lifting
the barrier for criticism, and, in that turn, making the government more responsive.
So, some people view the Arab Spring as a revolt or revolution from the young.
There isn't anger among the young in Saudi Arabia. There's a lot of love for their king.
There is frustration, and the kingdom is managing to deal with that quite well, I think.
They're spending money but they're also lifting restrictions. So, with that combination,
I think they're managing to develop as a country as a result of the Arab Spring, and not go through
the turmoil that other kingdoms, other countries have. Their motto, I think,
is "Evolution, not Revolution."
Of course you're not only the ambassador to Saudi Arabia. You also cover Yemen, Bahrain,
and Oman. What's it like being the ambassador to those four different countries?
Firstly, it's great to be able to get a regional perspective. Every time you go to
a different country it helps your broader understanding of the regional
dynamics. Bahrain is a small country. We have longstanding interests there. We have
the navy ship operating out of Bahrain. There is ongoing political process, I suppose you could
say, linked to the Arab Spring, in Bahrain, which we are watching and trying to contribute to.
In Yemen, it's a country...Yemen has the largest population, in the Gulf, of Arabs.
About 23, 24 million. It's the most heavily armed country in the world. Lots of light arms around.
And they're going through a national dialogue process there. Getting down to Sana'a is--
the capital of Yemen--is an amazing experience. The old city in Sana'a is a world heritage...
it's amazing. The Yemenis are extraordinary people and they've decided to take a path of
dialogue rather than of conflict in solving their problems, so, again, it's...very interesting times.
And Oman is a real gem. It's a beautiful country, lots of tourism. It has a very interesting history.
And we also have around 700 Omani students studying in Australia and that number is increasing.
So on every level we're working more with every of those countries in the region.
And together, by going through and visiting each one, you get a better understanding of the region but
also of each of those countries. So, it's really a very enjoyable and worthwhile thing.
I feel very privileged to be able to be doing it.
Now you mentioned tourism earlier. Is there anything in particular that
Australians should bear in mind if they're planning to visit Saudi Arabia or any of the other
countries in the Middle East?
That's a good question. There is no...there are no tourists per se to Saudi Arabia--they don't
issue tourist visas. But there is a lot of religious tourism, and so we do get our Muslim Australians
visiting Saudi Arabia. We have, especially around the time of the Hajj, we have special bulletins
on the travel website encouraging them, advising them how they should behave, and what
things they should be aware of, and that's really we'd encourage our Muslim Australians
to read that before they travel.
In Yemen, we advise people not to visit Yemen. Kidnapping threat is very high. And in Bahrain
we suggest you reconsider your need to travel. There are still some unrest there.
Oman, there are no problems. It has a very healthy tourist industry and certainly it would be a place
that, I think, many Australians do go there and have a wonderful time there.
Thanks very much, Neil, for speaking to us today.
No, thank you.
And that was Neil Hawkins, Australia's Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, as well as Yemen, Oman, and Bahrain.