JANUARY 6th INCITEMENT OF CHAOS
AND THE POTENTIAL CATASTROPHIC
IMPACT IT HAS FOR THE UNITED
STATES ON THE WORLD STAGE.
WATCH.
>> PRESIDENT TRUMP HELD A RALLY
AND HE INCITED HIS SUPPORTERS TO
STORM THE UNITED STATES CAPITOL
TO INTERRUPT THE PEACEFUL
TRANSFER OF POWER.
I’VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT HOW YOU
MUST HAVE SEEN IT.
HOW DID YOU FEEL WHEN YOU
WATCHED THAT HAPPEN?
IN THE UNITED STATES?
>> Translator: WE WERE VERY
SHOCKED.
I WAS VERY SURPRISED.
I COULD NOT IMAGINE THAT
SOMETHING LIKE THIS WAS POSSIBLE
IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
I BELIEVE THIS WAS A STRONG BLOW
TO DEMOCRACY OF THE UNITED
STATES.
WE ARE USED TO SEEING IN BOOKS,
IN FILMS, IN TELEVISION.
WE ARE USED TO BELIEVING THAT
THE UNITED STATES HAS THE IDEAL
DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS.
WHERE POWER IS TRANSFERRED
CALMLY WITHOUT WAR, WITHOUT
REVOLUTIONS.
POWER IS PASSED FROM ONE
PRESIDENCY TO ANOTHER.
WE SAW IT IN UKRAINE.
IN UKRAINE, WE LIVED THROUGH TWO
REVOLUTIONS.
WE SAW IT.
WE UNDERSTOOD SUCH THINGS CAN
HAPPEN IN THE WORLD, BUT THAT IT
COULD HAPPEN IN THE UNITED
STATES, NO ONE EXPECTED THAT.
AND THIS SAYS THAT NOT
EVERYTHING IS IDEAL.
>> JOINING OUR CONVERSATION IS
JONATHAN SWAN, AXIOS’S NATIONAL
POLITICAL REPORTER.
I’M GOING TO PLAY MORE OF THE
INTERVIEW.
IT’S JUST REMARKABLE.
BUT WHAT DID YOU THINK?
>> WELL, I FOUND IT VERY MOVING
AND ACTUALLY QUITE UNSETTLING.
JUST TO BE CLEAR, LIKE, THIS IS
NOT SOME BAD FAITH FOREIGN
LEADER, YOU KNOW, LIKE -- IT’S
NOT LIKE PUTIN SORT OF USING
THIS AS A CUDGEL AGAINST
AMERICA.
IT’S JUST SOMEONE WHO LOVES
AMERICA, WHO IS VERY MUCH WANTS
TO BUILD BONDS WITH THE UNITED
STATES AND EUROPE AND SEES
AMERICA, YOU KNOW, UKRAINE IS AN
EMERGING DEMOCRACY, LOOKING TO
AMERICA FOR INSPIRATION AND
SECURITY, AND HE’S WATCHING IN
HORROR AND THINKING, YOU KNOW, I
NEVER IMAGINED THIS WOULD HAPPEN
IN THE UNITED STATES.
AND IT’S JUST A REMINDER TO US
HERE IN AMERICA THAT WHAT
HAPPENED HERE ON JANUARY 6th,
IT’S NOT JUST A LOCAL EVENT.
THIS ECHOS WELL BEYOND AMERICAN
SHORES, AND YOU KNOW, ZELENSKY
IS -- WE HEAR SO MUCH, YOU KNOW,
IN OUR NEWS CYCLES ABOUT
VLADIMIR PUTIN AND THE
IMPORTANCE OF COUNTERING RUSSIA.
THIS IS NOT THEORETICAL FOR
ZELENSKY.
HE IS THERE ON THE EDGE.
RUSSIA HAS INVADED.
THEY’VE SWALLOWED IT UP.
HE’S DEFENDING HIS STRUGGLING
DEMOCRACY AGAINST PUTIN, AND
HERE HE IS LOOKING TO AMERICA,
YOU KNOW, FOR LEADERSHIP, AND
SEEING THIS HORRIFIC SIGHT.
I MEAN, IT’S A REALLY TROUBLING
SORT OF CONVERSATION THAT WE
HAD, AND YOU KNOW, JUST A REALLY
STRONG REMINDER THAT PEOPLE ARE
WATCHING.
THE WORLD IS WATCHING WHAT’S
HAPPENING HERE.
>> I MEAN, TRAGICALLY, THE WORLD
PAYS CLOSER ATTENTION TO OUR
POLITICS THAN A LOT OF AMERICANS
DO, BUT I WANT TO PLAY SOME MORE
OF YOUR INTERVIEW.
WE’LL TALK ABOUT IT ON THE OTHER
SIDE.
>> Translator: I REMEMBER WHEN I
WAS A YOUNG PERSON AND THE
ENTIRE WORLD WATCHED WHEN
SEPTEMBER 11th HAPPENED.
WE ALL REMEMBER THIS.
IT WAS SOME KIND OF HORROR.
WE WATCHED, AND YOU BELIEVE IT
AND CAN NOT BELIEVE IT AT THE
SAME TIME, THAT IN THE UNITED
STATES, WHERE SECURITY IS ALWAYS
AT SUCH A HIGH LEVEL, THAT
SOMETHING LIKE THAT CAN HAPPEN.
>> IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU WERE
PROFOUNDLY DISTURBED WATCHING
THIS.
>> Translator: I WAS VERY
WORRIED.
I WAS VERY WORRIED.
I DID NOT WANT YOU TO HAVE A
COUP, SHOOTING, AND GOD FORBID
LOSS OF LIFE.
IT IS JUST THAT AFTER SOMETHING
LIKE THIS, I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE
VERY DIFFICULT FOR THE WORLD TO
SEE THE UNITED STATES AS A
SYMBOL OF DEMOCRACY IN THE
WORLD.
>> I MEAN, JONATHAN SWAN, THERE
IT IS.
WHAT THE INSURRECTION DID TO
EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY IS
RENDER IT IRRELEVANT AS AN
ADVOCATE OR A BRAND MANAGER FOR
DEMOCRACY ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE
WORLD.
THAT IS SUCH A STAIN.
THAT IS SUCH A TRAGEDY.
>> WELL, IT ALSO UNDERSCORES
THAT THERE’S A LOT OF WORK TO
DO.
IT’S NOT AS SIMPLE AS HAVING A
NEW PRESIDENT AND, YOU KNOW,
EVERYTHING -- THE SLATE IS
CLEAN.
THERE IS LASTING, RESIDUAL
DAMAGE FROM THIS, AND IT’S GOING
TO TAKE A HUGE AMOUNT OF EFFORT
TO CHANGE THAT IMAGE OVERSEAS,
BECAUSE THEY ALL SAW THIS
HAPPEN, AND AS HE SAID, IT’S
VERY HARD TO SEE THIS -- THIS IS
THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER
IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE OF
AMERICAN DEMOCRACY, AND THEY SAW
WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6th AND
WERE QUITE SHAKEN BY IT.
>> IT’S AMAZING.
IT’S LIKE OUR SUPER BOWL FOR
DEMOCRACY, AND WE BLEW IT UP.
WE BLEW IT.
JONATHAN SWAN, WE WILL BE
WATCHING.
IT’S REALLY ANOTHER REMARKABLE
INTERVIEW ON YOUR PART.
CONGRATULATIONS, MY FRIEND.
YOU CAN WATCH THE WHOLE THING,