ADAM: WELCOME BACK TO "CLOSE UP." OUR NEXT GUEST IS A FAMILIAR FACE TO JUST ABOUT EVERYONE, WITH HIS LEAD ROLES IN "LAW AND ORDER" AND "THE NEWSROOM," AMONG
MANY OTHER HOLLYWOOD CREDITS.
BUT SAM WATERSTON’S WORK GOES BEYOND THE SCREEN TO THE POLITICAL ARENA AND HIS INVOLVEMENT WITH ’OPEN DEMOCRACY,’ A GROUP THAT ADVOCATES FOR CAMPAIGN FINANCE
REFORM.
SAM, THANKS FOR JOINING US.
>> NICE TO SEE YOU.
ADAM: APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.
ON CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM, I DON’T THINK I CAN THINK OF ANOTHER ISSUE WHERE YOU HAVE PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE WHO ARE REALLY JUST FED UP WITH THE SLIMY ROLE MONEY PLAYS
IN OUR POLITIC BUT THEN NOTHING EVER HAPPENS ABOUT IT.
WHY IS THAT?
>> YOU SAY NOTHING EVER HAPPENS ABOUT IT, BUT THE REASON I AM HERE IS BECAUSE THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR NEW HAMPSHIRE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT I AND I THINK JUST BASED ON WHAT
YOU OBSERVED JUST NOW, THE TIME IS RIGHT.
PEOPLE KNOW THAT THIS IS BASIC TO HAVING YOUR OWN REPRESENTATIVE BE YOUR REPRESENTATIVE AND NOT HAVE THAT BE MEDIATED BY PILES OF MONEY.
ADAM: WHAT IS THE OBSTACLE THAT HAS KEPT REFORM FROM HAPPENING IN THE PAST?
>> I THINK PART OF I IS THERE IS SOME IMMEDIATE ISSUE.
POLITICIANS SAY MOST OFTEN, I WOULD LOVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT BUT I AM TOO BUSY.
I HAVE TO GET THIS AND THAT DONE.
YOU CARE ABOUT THIS AND THAT.
IN THE MEANTIME, ALL OF THOSE THINGS PEOPLE LEGITIMATELY CARE ABOUT AR BEING INTERFERED WITH.
AND THE CONVERSATION IS BEING CHANGED BY THE MONEY.
ADAM IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, WE HAVE THE FIRST IN THE NATION PRIMARY.
WE ARE USED TO SEEING CANDIDATES MAKE THEIR PILGRIMAGES HERE.
THAT IS WHY I THINK IT IS SO EXCITING NEW HAMPSHIRE IS DOING THIS.
THERE HAS BEEN A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF PROGRES IN MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS.
MY STATE, CONNECTICUT, HAS PUBLICLY FINANCE ELECTIONS FOR MOST OF THE STA OFFICES, ALTHOUGH NOT FOR ANY FEDERAL OFFICE AND IT SHOULD HAVE THEM AT THE
FEDERAL LEVEL.
IF NEW HAMPSHIRE DOES IT, IT WILL BE DEMONSTRATION AND IT WILL GET A LOT OF ATTENTION BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE CANDIDATE THAT COMES THROUGH HERE HOPING TO B PRESIDENT WILL HAVE TO
ANSWER THIS QUESTION.
AND NE HAMPSHIRE WILL BE AN OBJECT LESSON.
NOW IS THE TIME.
TH BILL THAT IS GOING TO BE CONSIDERED HERE IS GOING TO BE UP FOR A VOTE IN 2019.
SUPPOSE NEW HAMPSHIRE HAD THAT IN PLA WHEN THE PRIMARIES START FOR 2020.
WHAT A WONDERFUL THING IT WOULD BE FOR THE CITIZENS OF NEW HAMPSHIRE TO BE ABLE TO SAY WE HA IT, WHAT ABOUT YOU?
WHERE DO YOU STAND?
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?
HOW ARE WE TO BELIEVE YOU WHEN YO SAY THIS IS A MAJOR ISSUE FOR YOU?
ADAM THE BILL YOU ARE DISCUSSING WOULD CREATE CAP’S ON ELECTIONS IN NEW HAMPSHIRE IN TERMS OF SPENDING.
THEY HAVE A SYSTEM WHERE PEOPLE WOUL GET CERTIFICATES OF $25 EACH TO GIVE TO CANDIDATES.
>> THIS IS A TERRIBLY IMPORTANT THING.
PEOPLE WOULD HAVE VOUCHERS WITH WHICH THEY COULD VOTE WITH THEI MONEY FOR A CANDIDATE.
AND THEY WOULD KNOW AS THEY DID THAT THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO DO THAT BECAUSE OF PUBLIC FINANCING FOR ELECTIONS.
AND THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THEIR POWER, THE POWER OF THEIR VOICE AND THE POWER FOR THEM TO BE HEARD, WOULD BE EMPHASIZED EVERY TIME THEY PARTICIPATED IN AN ELECTION.
AND IT WOULD REINFORCE THE WHOLE SYSTEM I THINK.
ADAM: WE HAVE SEEN THE PENDULUM MOVING IN THE OTHER DIRECTION WE SEEK CANDIDATES MAKING THE PILGRIMAGE TO NE HAMPSHIRE SINCE THE CITIZENS UNITED DECISION.
THEY ALSO GO STRAIGHT TO THE BILLIONAIRES TO ASK FOR MONEY, ESSENTIALLY.
I’M NOT SURE THERE IS ANYONE THAT THINKS THAT IS A GREAT IDEA, THAT THE FIRST IN THE NATION PRIMARY COMPETES WITH INDIVIDUAL DONORS WHO CAN FUND THE VAST NETWORKS THAT FINAL
MONEY IN THE DIRECTION OF ISSUES AND CAMPAIGNS.
>> MONEY IS NEVER GOING TO STOP HAVING AN INFLUENCE.
I AM NOT SURE IT IS SUCH A BAD THING.
AFTER ALL, THIS IS A CAPITALIST COUNTRY.
BUT THE REALLY IMPORTANT THING FOR PEOPLE TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT WHEN THE SYSTEM WE ARE GOVERNED BY NOW FIRST CAME INTO EXISTENCE, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE VERY RICHEST AND THE
VERY POOREST WAS MUCH NARROWER THAN IT IS NOW.
SO, MONEY HA A PROPORTIONATELY SMALLER INFLUENCE ON THE OUTCOME OF ELECTIONS.
WE HAVE NOT REALLY HAD A PERIOD WHERE THE EXTREME DIFFERENCES BETWEEN GREAT WEALTH AND THE REST OF US HAVE BEEN S GREAT, NOT SINCE JUST BEFORE THE GREAT DEPRESSION.
IN THOSE DAYS, PEOPLE USED TO SAY THAT YOU WERE GETTING THE BEST GOVERNMENT MONEY COULD BUY.
AND WE DON’T WANT THAT.
WE DON’T WANT TO BE LIVING IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE AGAIN.
ADAM: Y MENTIONED THE FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUE.
WHAT IS AN ACCEPTABL LEVEL FOR A DONATION CAP ?
>> WHATEVER IT IS THAT RESTORES SOME ROUGH BALANCE BETWEEN GREAT WEALTH AND THE REST US AT THE BALLOT BOX, NOT IN THE BROADER SOCIETY.
THERE IS NO WORRY.
MONEY WOULD HAVE N REASON TO WORRY IT WILL NOT BE HEARD.
IT WOULD BE HEARD ALL OVER THE PLACE.
THE IDEA OF THIS IS SIMPLY TO GET THE HAND OF MONEY OUT OF THE BALLOT BOX.
AND THEN, LET THE GAMES BEGIN.
IT IS NOT GOING TO BE PARADISE ON EARTH OR ANYTHING, BUT IT WILL BE A LOT NICER THAN IT IS NOW.
ADAM: MONEY, LIKE WATER, WILL FIND A WAY.
PEOPLE FIND A WAY TO SUBVERT IT.
>> IT IS NOT ABOUT THE SYSTEM.
IT IS ABOUT A ROUGH BALANCE BETWEEN UNHEARD OF WEALTH A THE REST OF SOCIETY.
SOMETHING NEEDS TO B DONE SO THE REST OF SOCIE HAS SOME KIND OF BALANCE WITH GREAT WEALTH.
PUBLIC FINANCING O ELECTIONS WILL NOT CHANGE THAT IMBALANCE, BUT IT WILL GIVE THE REST OF SOCIETY A FAIRER VOICE.
ADAM: I’M CURIOUS ON YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON ONE OTHER TOPIC.
CELEBRITY AND POLITICS.
WE’VE SEEN IT BEGINNING TO DRAW CLOSER AND CLOSER, FROM KENNEDY TO REAGAN, AND NOW PRESIDENT TRUMP.
>> I DON’T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH POLITICS.
ADAM: AS SOMEONE FAMOUS AND INVOLVED IN CAMPAIGNS, DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE INCREASINGL IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE FAMOUS TO BE HEARD?
>> I THINK IT VERY IMPORTANT FOR CITIZENS TO BE HEARD.
YOU ARE WILLING TO HAVE THIS CITIZEN ON TV BECAUSE THIS CITIZEN HAPPENS TO BE A LITTLE MORE FAMOU THAN OLIVIA.
BUT SOMEBODY HAS GOT TO BE SPEAKING.
IT ALWAYS MAKES ME LAUGH WHEN THEY SAY YOU SHOULD SHUT UP BECAUSE YOU ARE A CELEBRITY AND YOU ARE SHOULD -- YOU SHOULD SHUT UP BECAUSE YOU ARE A WOMAN OR AFRICAN AMERICAN.
WHAT IS THE COMMON DENOMINATOR HERE?
EVERYBODY SHOULD SHUT UP EXCEPT US, AND WE WILL TELL YOU WHAT TO DO AND HOW TO THINK.
THAT IS OBVIOUSLY NOT THE AMERICAN WAY.
ADAM SAM WATERSTON, WE APPRECIATE YOUR PERSPECTIVE.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
HOPE TO SEE YOU BACK.