Mr SPEAKER: Question No 6, Hon Phil Goff.
Hon PHIL GOFF (Labour—Mt Roskill) to the Prime Minister:
When he says “I am ruling out NZ sending SAS or any troops into combat roles in Iraq”,
for how long can New Zealanders rely on him sticking to this guarantee?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House) on behalf of the Prime Minister:
Yesterday I ruled out sending SAS or any troops into combat roles in Iraq,
and I do not see that changing.
Hon Phil Goff: Will this guarantee be more permanent than his last guarantee,
when he previously ruled out the SAS going to Iraq,
in any capacity, on 16 June of this year, only to reverse that position on 20 October,
after the election, saying that the SAS going there was definitely an option?
[Interruption] Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: Cabinet determined on Monday of this week a decision that
we would engage in the fight against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS)
on four aspects: diplomacy, intelligence, humanitarian aid, and capacity building
for Iraqi forces if requested by the Iraqi Government.
Hon Phil Goff: When, on 16 June this year, he ruled out NZ special force soldiers
being deployed to Iraq, even, in his words, “in an advisory capacity”,
does he stand by that promise, or is that promise already past its use-by date?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: There are no SAS troops planned for deployment in Iraq.
Hon Phil Goff: When he said yesterday that NZ military personnel deployed in Iraq
would be “behind the wire” and limited to training local forces,
did he not previously use exactly those words about NZ troops in Afghanistan,
when we know that the training and mentoring role of the SAS
actually involved combat roles in which two special force soldiers
were killed in action?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: There are two very distinct situations here that are not alike.
In Afghanistan our troops were involved in roles to advise, assist, and accompany.
We are not intending that they will be involved in any of those aspects in Iraq.
Hon Phil Goff: Prior to the Cabinet decision on Monday,
did the Government send any NZ Defence Force personnel or members of the SAS
to the Middle East in relation to the campaign against ISIS in any capacity;
if so, when and in what capacity?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: The NZ Defence Force is engaged in a number of posts in the Middle East,
as the member well knows, and has been for many, many years.
We have, for example, been, for I think 34 years,
involved in peacekeeping in the Sinai. The real point here is
that some of those personnel will likely be involved
in the exploratory work that the military has now been asked to do.
They were in that area beforehand but they were not authorised
to do that beforehand.
Hon Phil Goff: Why does he imagine that a small group of NZ Defence Force trainers
will make any difference to the quality of the Iraq army
when more than 10 years of intense efforts
on a massive scale by the United States in training that army
failed to produce anything like a quality army?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: No decision has been made about the capacity-building
exercise that we may consider. That is why we have personnel
there at the moment looking into what may be done.
We are setting our own conditions around that,
and when we get all of that we will be able to make that decision.
Hon Phil Goff: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.
My question was very carefully worded, and you will note that the Government
has said that sending trainers there is an option.
My question was not about whether it had made the decision
but about why he would imagine making that decision
would make any difference. That is quite precise.
It was not answered at all.
Mr SPEAKER: The honourable Minister wants to further his answer.
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: I say, as the Leader of the House,
that the Prime Minister does not go around doing things based on imagination.
He does it on clear facts, and that is what he
has the group to go and find for him.
Mr SPEAKER: [Interruption] Question No.—
Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can the PM confirm that members of the SAS are in Iraq now
and have been for some time— yes or no?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: That is not my information.
Mr SPEAKER: Question No 7, Brett Hudson.
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