to enemy today's adam winkler he's a professor of constitutional law at the
u_c_l_a_ school of law also author of gunfight the battle over the right to
bear arms in america
and great to talk to you again i want to talk about that some of the controversy
that started
after the arrest of
uh... these boston marathon bombing suspect you are sar native and the fact
that he was not moran dies he was going to be spoken to under the public safety
exception so
let's talk about what that exception is and when it can be when it applies
well that's right the referral as so many americans are now
requires the government to warn you that you have a right to remain silent and a
right to counsel
and then if you deny those things the government can admit into evidence
uh... the testimony that you give
onto the police officer this before uh... icd seeking counsel and that role
has an exception michael known as the public safety exception answers
where there's a imminent threat to public safety
the government can interrogate you try to get information say it was our has
had
well other ron's round boston for instance they want to find out
make sure they got that information s_a_t_ within minutes
but it is a limited requirement it does require a korean imminent danger
women in the dangers of saying we're trying their best to gate
by his legs back in chechnya russia
we have to be something that poses a clear present danger imminently
to citizens here in the united states right away
so the concerns from some have been that buying by using the public safety
exception
due process was was not uh... that that he was not getting due process and that
somehow
the the loop of the spirit of the law if not the letter was being circumvented
now of what i want to do first is just a look at what we know
he was a suspect in a in a terrorist bombing
he had engaged with police the previous night and is alleged to have thrown pipe
bombs it was unclear whether where he got those pipe bombs and if there were
more bombs do you think that broadly speaking from an outsiders point of view
those things make apob look safety exception valid in this particular case
well at least for a limited time they certainly do have a have multiple arms
we know that or loss of use five austin our onsite are 'cause there's a lot of
another one the next night
uh... and so we know that they have more bombs the government we don't what we
really don't know is what information the government represent leave the
government's got more information about these uh... the science
uh... afterthought than they've made it clear so far to their own intelligence
karen so we don't know
maybe they had special reason to believe that there was another bomb that had
been planted but i do think it's becoming clear that the imminence that
was that justifies the public safety exception
is no longer in effect we've already had public officials and
uh... including uh... the governor and state of massachusetts say that the
public represented once the public represented
to no longer and the public safety threat
uh... that uh... continue
allow the government ngo terry okay so that's let's address the concerns then
what happens now our people right to be concerned about what right i mean it's
kind of a a broad constitutional concern argument about
is he getting due process or not
what should happen now and if it doesn't happen what may be the recourse of that
what may be the repercussions woods with certain things not be admissible in a
potential trial and who would decide that
well likely questions vital questions prayer law
go to the supreme court in the supreme court will issue a final determination i
don't know what the government wants to do the government here today to protest
began taking approach that we're going to treat him like a criminal
uh... and provide them with basic uh... right to counsel and due process be
dropped
bum out he is the titles of those things clearly is american citizen the
government may do what it's done in some other terrorism cases especially during
the bush years which is to say
you know what we think this is a special exception we're gonna treated
differently and we're going to let the courts decide in the long run whether
we're right or wrong the process by which date you wait to get a court
decision ultimately the final ruling by the supreme court
could be four or five years down the line so the government really does have
discretion in some ways to say he you know what this is a terrorism we think
this is this is a terrace we think this is a different question owen bennett
what's been interesting court before
even on the board is set american citizens are entitled to their
constitutional rights i'd find myself split given that on this issue because
on the one hand i share a lot of the concerns many people have about
people being denied due process indefinite cases of indefinite detention
with no charges coming
but i'd feel that this is really a different case in that we know who this
individual is
we've had a and international following of the case and these kind of the these
cases where we have these unknown suspects who may not even be the right
person being held somewhere where we can we don't even know that's a concern
but this seems like a very different situation from that and i don't want to
to mix the two issues
this is a very clear-cut cases terms of terrorism from what we know so far
of course we don't have all the evidence yet so to make too many rush to judgment
but we should recognize that has always risky to put exceptions been or
constitutional rights
now for weather we thanks i have is a terrorist cannot seems clearly has to
make
uh... he's entitled for constitutional right he's an american citizen capture
on domestic soil we don't want our government is just as a hang we think
you're terrace we're gonna rest you know we're not going to see counsel in charge
that determination that you're a terrorist uh... is finally got a day we
just got through this debate and opponents of gun reform sent hey you
know what this is a slippery slope with real our government at extended
background checks the next thing you know idle our government come take away
our concept uh... what we really would be deliveries are creating exceptions
for american citizens captured here on domestic sought uh... what do you want
our government to of the contract with the basically take someone off the
streets and say you know what you think you're a terrorist
uh... and uh... you know here we know a lot of fastmail dot sign and we know
about this whole case what if they come by your house tomorrow and pick you up
and you know when i was about it
if governments got the power media
so now you said earlier that alternately the supreme court if it goes that far
would decide whether
keaton that in interrogators went too far without moran dicing beyond the
public safety exception
given that
the concerns that whatever it is people worry about might happen if he's not
moran guys doors perfused counsel
wouldn't that alternately be appealed to and eventually be made right in other
words for whatever concern people may have in the short term
avenge truly if he wasn't given due process
wouldn't the supreme court
make that call
i think the supreme court would likely incest on sayed being awarded due
process they want to make clear his coffee and france tel
that american citizens were captured a brought in this case i have gas tank
uh... engaged in active also is against the united states
are still entitled to due process that can go to federal court to challenge
their detention so there's no doubt that so i would have at least that
and quite obviously because he was captured on domestic so elected much
more so i think he's entitled the process of the supreme court will
ultimately decide it nonetheless one of the things that uh... anger a lot of
people during the bush administration was the government seeming disregard for
constitutional rights and to draw attention it's not our responsibility
but the courts make those decisions the constitution should be checked one every
branch of government and everything lawmakers to executive officials to or
other quarters you and it's important that uh... the president respect the
constitution regardless of the supreme court's committeeman
four years down the line
so bottom line adam based on what we know now that the initial public safety
exception
sounds like it was valid to u and now as long as the the rest of this
investigation is carried out in accordance with the constitution you
don't see any problem
our job but will have to see what the administration doesn't want course
issues at stake
all right we've been speaking with adam winkler professor of constitutional law
at the u_c_l_a_ school of law also checked out his book gun fight the
battle over the right to bear arms in america i've read enjoyed it
adam thanks as always for being on the show
thanks ron