I feel like people are not taking advantage of the internet right now.
Like TikTok, people should be making short films on TikTok.
People are getting millions of views on there.
So, also in terms of your festival strategy,
have you cut an element of your show for those platforms?
So I think people need to be a lot more innovative.
I do think the industry can be so caught up in like the traditional pathways.
I do find that the world of programming
is really inaccessible to filmmakers
and it's, you know,
I think I'm all about wanting to like, demystify that as much as possible.
And I think that as a filmmaker, you just you don't really know what it looks like.
And I think, so I think it's easy to sort of feel dejected and feel like,
you know, I think I've had a lot of people who have been like,
did you even watch my film?
Did you even watch it to the end?
And I'm like, Yeah, like we all watch the films.
Like we’re literally paid to watch your films
like that is what being a programmer is.
I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't watch your film.
And so I think that it's kind of thinking about
it's not just about the individual film.
Like as a programmer,
you're curating like an entire screening or an entire reel or whatever it might be,
wherever your programming for,
you want people to go on a kind of journey with those films.
And I think that, you know, sometimes that might be thematically programming,
so you might be programming work that is kind of
maybe around similar themes together or I like to kind of programme stuff
that is maybe not so much thematically similar, but is kind of just
interesting in different ways and is bouncing around a little bit
and kind of creating ups and downs in that programme.
And so it's really about, you know, you'll find like one or two films
maybe that you're like, right, these are the ones
definitely that I'm going to programme in here.
And then you're looking for films that are going to play well with them.
So when your film doesn't really make the cut, like
there's just so many factors.
And there are films that I absolutely love that I haven't programmed
and often I'll keep them in mind and I'll find somewhere else
to programme them in a different like setting that I'm doing,
because they just didn't quite fit in that space
and they wouldn't really fit in the rhythm.
And also like, you know,
sometimes it's not right for your film to play with those other films as well.
And I think that's something about thematically programming
that's really interesting actually, because sometimes like
if you programme something quite, you know,
I guess quite heavy on one theme and I put your film in there,
you might be like, ‘That’s not really what my film is about’
and I might have just added context to your film that you’re like,
you know, that's maybe not what I was going for.
So I think that, you know, there's loads of factors
that you're thinking about as a programmer when you're deciding on the shorts.
So a ‘no’ is really like, it's really not something to be kind of down about.
And I know that's really easier said than done,
and especially when you might be getting nos from a few different places,
like it’s obviously not a nice feeling, but it really is a reflection
on the programmer and kind of what they're putting on rather than your work itself.
So I think it's really thinking about like, okay, cool,
like my work didn't get into that particular place, but that's not the end of my project.
Like, there's so many other opportunities, there’s other festivals,
there’s other screening places.
You know, you kind of touch on it a little bit,
but like it costs so much to submit to festivals
that you really need to do your research on where you're submitting to, because,
you know, you might have made a film that the festival you submitted to
just would never play because it's not that kind of vibe.
And so you kind of wasted your money putting it in there.
So being like really sure on what you're doing is super important.
But I don't know, I think that it's ...
I think that with shorts like you kind of do have to be sort of thick skinned
and you do have to be thinking a little bit, okay, cool, onto the next one.
And I think if you're sort of developing your career, it's so easy to kind of get
quite one track mind on that project at that time when actually like, you know,
if that project isn't kind of going as you really want it to, cool, fine.
Like take the learnings, like have a think, what can you do better next time,
and start working on the next thing and do both at the same time.
Like, you don’t have to drop that film completely.
But it's just in terms of like
keeping your energy going and keeping your kind of momentum going.
I think that's really important.
Yeah.
I think when it comes to festival strategy,
it all starts from making a good quality short film.
And ultimately you want it to be
a bit more like pushing something downhill rather than uphill.
So, for example, you submitting to lots of festivals, 300 festivals.
So if you submit to 300 festivals, they all say no,
but that's when it’s like okay, this is getting intense.
How can you take more ownership,
and how can you start self-distributing, putting stuff online.
But going back to your question, the conversations that we've had with
the filmmakers is about thinking about where would you like your film to exist?
And also, I think once you've won big at a really good festival,
then it might just start reminding you, okay,
there's other big festivals that you can start going for.
But if you've got relationships with programmers as well,
think about utilising those relationships because there's only ...
there's not only one traditional path to get into festivals.
So for example, a lot of festivals have guest programmes.
So if you speak to guest programmers,
previously me and Caragh was both programming at Aesthetica,
but there was also guest programmes that take place there.
So I think it's about
understanding all the different avenues that you can actually get into festivals.
But also don't bet your whole life and invest all your money into festivals
if it feels like it's a big uphill journey
because it might be the short itself might not be the best film for festivals.
Look, it's so easy when you're starting out to look at like
big festivals, look at BFI, whatever it might be, and like
feel that they have like a lot of power and like sure they do,
but like they need filmmakers to exist and I think that
you can't second guess what it is that you want to make.
And the only way that you're going to make work that you feel kind of
passionate and happy about is if you make what you truly want.
And I think that, you know, second guessing what someone else wants to see,
like you can see it a mile off, like even if I can get like watch a film
and I can be like, okay, well,
I can see the sort of beats that they've gone for here.
And I can see that they've kind of like
trying to make me cry at the end, which like, fine, I cry quite easily,
but it's like, that's not necessarily the way to kind of get your film seen.
Like the films that I really love are the films that surprise me.
So if you're trying to emulate something that maybe you saw do well at a festival,
I just don't think that's going to be kind of the best way to go about it.
And I think that you're going to make your best work when you're just sort of
really thinking hard about who you are and what you want to say
and what you have to offer this space that's different.
And that can be so many different things.
And it doesn't mean that it has to be like a super personal story as well.
I think, you know, going to kind of ... funding as well.
Like I think there's a lot of pressure on people,
particularly making debuts to make like very personal work
that is often kind of maybe quite drama led and is quite identity led as well.
And like to be really honest, I do not always want to see
your trauma on a page or on a screen or whatever it might be.
Like, it's really intense
and especially when you're a programmer and you might be watching like,
I mean for assess critics what, six/seven hundred shorts you're watching.
If they're like all really super intense,
super personal, like as a programmer, like, it's a lot to watch.
And so, it's kind of those films that come out of that a little bit
and you know, it's not to say
that you can't make work about that, if that's what you want to do, do that,
but think about the way
that you can bring that to your story in a slightly fresher, original take.
And that's the thing that's going to make you sit up and like,
okay, I've just watched ten shorts in a row
and like what even is a short anymore?
And then I watch your short and I'm like, oh yeah that's sick, like that's going in.
Would your advice be Mathieu
that if you are invited to screen at an event, you've got to go?
I would say hundred.
There's two things that I would say. Number one, make sure you go.
And number two, don't be boujee.
So when I say don't be boujee, like we've mentioned, there are big festivals
that yes, they do have a lot of power, but the smaller festivals, the smaller
community programmers do show up because you never know who's in screenings.
Because sometimes the bigger festivals you get lost in the crowd of all the films,
but sometimes if you go to like a short film night
and there's only five films playing, you've got more of a chance of people
actually showing up to the actual screening.
There's some festivals you can go to
and there’s only like ten people in attendance.
So there's attendance on both sides.
So, I would say if you can go to as many festivals as possible that you get into,
do your try your best to go to them.
And you even mentioned before, if you get into like an international festival,
there is support from the British Council for specific ones.
Absolutely.
Caragh, anything to add in terms of how to ...
how to be when you're at one of these.
Like if you're selected into Sundance
and you've never been to an international festival or Berlin or
something, that can be quite intimidating for the first time.
Massively intimidating.
And I know filmmakers that have gone to those festivals and it's just been like
a total whirlwind and they've not known what to really do with themselves
and especially if like the rare occasion that you make a short
and it absolutely bangs like it happens like not super often, but the short that like
everyone is then like crowding around, they want to make you offers, all of this.
Like amazing, but that's like so intense to deal with.
And also as like a newer filmmaker you probably like ...
what's right, what's the right offer, what's the right opportunity.
It's okay to have those questions and to not know the answers.
And I think going in, being comfortable with that is totally fine.
Like you don't need to know everything.
And I would say like if you're, you know,
not into networking, that kind of thing, like film festivals
are where you're just going to find like people that you really get on with.
And that's the kind of nicest thing.
Like it doesn't always have to be about what am I going to get out of this?
Like you might just go and meet some people that you really vibe with
and like maybe you'll work with them in the future, maybe you won't.
But that's just kind of building out your networks.
And again, I think the more you do that, talking about imposter syndrome,
the more you feel like comfortable in the industry,
and the more you feel that this is a space for you
because you're kind of like,
okay, cool, and I know this person, I know this person,
there’s people that I like here and I get on with them.
But I think like, just like, yeah, and can geek out on people's films.
Like if you go to a festival with a short but you're kind of not really sure
what to do, go watch other shorts.
Yeah, and like go talk to the director or whatever.
Go tell them how much you liked they're short because like,
no one's ever sad to hear that and you can just start a conversation that way.
I would also say from my own experience, find the person that programmed your film.
Yeah.
Because it’s an in-built fan, right?
You’ve got it and they're going to be ... they’re there because they love shorts.
They'll be busy, but they'll be friendly.
And that's, you know, that's an anchor point at least
even if you don't know anyone else.
I would say Bounce is important because from my own personal experiences,
before I even came to the film industry, I've never been to a film festival
and there's a lot of communities that haven't actually been to film festivals as well.
So for filmmakers,
people need to understand that when people go to festivals sometime
there's a lot of industry people, but you want everyday people
to come and watch your films and you want to see their reactions.
You want to see if they actually like them,
because there's a different types of audiences and it makes a big difference
to just get everyday people to watch your films.
But then also with Bounce,
the beauty of Bounce is that there is no programme,
so the audiences don't know what they're coming to watch.
So it's not based on, okay, there's a superstar filmmaker
that's got a big name, okay, wow everyone wants to come watch that.
It’s literally the most level playing field because if there's no programme,
there's 500 people that have come here, they’re all strangers.
It's not your uncle, your aunt that's gonna be ‘oh we love your film,’
It's literally a random person.
And I think also there's so many different other platforms.
Look at the Internet.
I feel like people are not taking advantage of the Internet right now.
Like TikTok, people should be making short films for TikTok.
People are getting millions of views on there.
So also in terms of your festival strategy,
have you cut an element of your short for those platforms?
So I think people need to be a lot more innovative.
I do think the industry can be so caught up in like the traditional pathways,
but if you can actually, you know, take advantage
of all these new different avenues, it will open up so many more doors.
Have you been one of the lucky few where the short just works
and then you've been able to sit back and let it fly?
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
As I say, we was really surprised by the success that, um, and also like you said,
you have to know what festivals you gonna send your movie to.
And for us it was ...
because it's really personal for me this movie, it was more about emotions,
but we actually went to festivals which were more technical.
And like SIGGRAPH, which is a technical venue and we didn't expect to go there.
So we had some really good surprises along the way, nothing was planned.
So, yeah, it's great.
I feel like I'm still going to be surprised by many things
and it's only like the beginning, but for me it was after this movie,
I wanted a break from directing because it's exhausting, but so I wanted to go
more on the technical side of things, because of festivals.
And meeting people who actually talk about movies
and who just make movies, and it's like,
Oh, you want to be a filmmaker, then to do something.
And that's it.
Now I really want to become one again and it's just about the experience,
like how inspiring it is.
And yeah, it just made me want to do more and realise that it's actually doable.
I met a few people that then sent, sent text to me
saying, oh, we should work together and sending scripts.
And it was like I never expected that to happen.
So it's like only good surprises.
And yeah, I think it's much easier than you think it is.
Yeah. Excellent. Thank you so much.