- Hey guys, today I have with me
a very special guest, it's Sara Pascoe.
- Hello.
This feels so much like when I used
to pretend to make programs.
- What do you mean pretend? - [Sara] When I was a child.
So before YouTube existed, I would be
in my kitchen like, "hey guys, I'm gonna cook you a cake."
- Did you actually film it or you just pretended?
- No, no, you just say it to the wall,
and because we're in your bedroom,
I feel like, "oh yea hey guys, I'm gonna make you a cake."
- I remember me and my sister in the back of the car
pretending to present radio shows.
- Oh yea. - [Hannah] On long journeys.
- Yes, me and my sister Cheryl
used to do it on my mom's, mom had a Dictaphone for work
where she would record important meetings,
and Cheryl and I would be these two DJs
called DJ Big Willy and DJ Bigger Willy.
We were like so obsessed,
and all we would ever say between the songs
was, "well I've got a big willy, next up Robbie Williams."
- Sara is a comedian.
- I stand up with a microphone,
and I get to say whatever I like.
So it's a good job.
- What do you like saying?
- Do I like saying?
Well it's interesting 'cause I am a woman,
a female person, and I hadn't really thought
that much about it until I did comedy,
but when you do comedy there's not that
it's just a very male environment,
but it was people kept saying to me, like,
"oh you talk a lot about women's issues,"
and I didn't understand because to me,
they were really universal things--
- Yea.
- But because, and I've heard people
talking really eloquently about this
about being non-white that everyone else
sees something you don't.
So when you're talking about your subjective experience,
although that's what everyone is talking about,
yours is, oh the experience of a black man,
or experience of a gay person, mine was like
if I'm in the shop, so I'm on the bus,
a woman in the shops, a woman on the bus,
so I think they thought a lot more about gender.
- I feel like if comedy was traditionally
very female dominated and then a male comedian comes along,
people would be like, "why you talking about men's issues?"
- Yea, I don't wanna hear about you wanking it,
it's disgusting, wet dreams shut up.
- Oh erections, - [Sara] Yea exactly.
- No one wants to hear about that.
- It's not even relevant to my life mate.
(laughter erupts)
- With Sara here I thought that we would talk about
this whole idea that now that we had femism
and the women's movement and all of that good stuff,
women are sexually liberated.
- I think a young woman's given loads
of contradictory messages which I think is the thing.
It's about being very attractive as kind of her currency,
and people wanting to sleep with her,
but then being very choosy about who that is,
and then apparently she's gotta have multiple orgasms
at the same time and be like really great at it,
and if you don't and you're not--
- You've gotta be a sex goddess.
- Yea and if you're not getting there's a pleasure
then you're letting yourself down
because you're liberated now.
How as a young person now,
and obviously 'cause you're younger than me,
I thought this is where it'd be interesting
to be talked about, so women tend to be
in their early 30s or in their 40s and their 50s,
they start to talk about, "oh now I get sexual pleasure,"
"and now I know what my body likes,"
"now I want," but once you--
- I feel like I'm getting loads of messages
of people being like, "wait until you're in your 30s,"
"that's your sexual prime."
- Yea it's quite patronizing isn't it as well,
because obviously--
- I'm like, I think I'm having good sex now.
- Yea, of course, they're not going
no that's shit sex, you don't even know what you're having.
- Just you wait.
- But the reason might be, I think some people
have theories about it being physiological
but it might be all about confidence,
which confidence and sexual pleasure go so hand in hand,
like if you don't feel like ok about your body,
you can't really let yourself go.
And I read something, it's so interesting,
maybe you've read it, it was, there's a book
called Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski.
- I just got it, I have not read it yet,
but I have it.
- You'll love it so much.
But what's really great, she talks about
how with young boys no one tells them
they're expected to enjoy their first sexual experiences
because the ejaculation for a man
is kind of a simple mechanism.
- Yea and women are told like it might hurt a bit.
- No, we're told it's gonna hurt,
don't expect to enjoy it for ages,
like you're gonna have to work at it,
and you think what?
Because I think the actual thing
is how do you feel about it?
And I think--
- Yea.
- That's what's really tricky and I think
that's the thing that happens with age
is what you get better at knowing
is oh this is mean turned on, this me like oh,
rather than like remember when I've been 16 or 17
using words like oh I'm gagging for it.
I didn't know what that was, I did not know what that was.
So when I started to actually know my body more
and I do know the difference now
between oh I'm moody because I'm horny,
(laughter erupts)
like I'm really grumpy about it,
and a difference oh I've never ever even felt this
in my late teens because I wasn't looking to myself
to go when do I want something.
- Yea and it's also like trying to figure out
the difference between, this is what I've been
toying with recently, is...
do I want to have sex with that person
or do I just want to have sex?
- Yea it's about hunger.
Sometimes, you just want to eat something,
and it's like, well whatever--
- What's in the cupboard?
- Yea what's in the cupboard, what's there,
and I think that's why sometimes people end up,
you know that you can kind of not like someone
but if you've had quite good sex with them occasionally
that sort of thing, and I guess that's where
the whole culture of booty calls and stuff got on
where you're like--
- Just so easy.
- Ok, the guy I like didn't turn up,
or the woman I like didn't turn up,
but they're here.
- Traditionally the narrative was like
that women are more relationship hungry
and men are more sex hungry.
And then now, we've kind of flipped it
and anyone can have any role
but a lot of my friends who are women
and who are like, actually no I actually
do want a relationship, not because I'm sexually prude
or oppressed or I think, but that's what I want.
- Yea well I think the underlying problem
is that thing about having sex like a man,
so still seeing things and these really broad stereotypes
and it isn't fair to men as well.
I know some men who waited
until they were really old 'til they lost their virginity
because they had to be so sure,
because they had been given such messages
about you really need to kind of love that person
and probably forever.
And so, there are pressures on boys as well
which we shouldn't ignore.
Did you see this week that they released
the statistics which show that social media
has made teenage pregnancy halve in the last 10 years?
- That's 'cause people are spending
more time online and less time having sex.
- Yes, literally.
- Go social media!
- Yea, from 2006 which is when Facebook
became worldwide and obviously 2016,
10 years later, teenage pregnancy
in this country has halved.
I know.
And I do also think that young women
and young men are probably also
more education, more sensible,
hopefully sex education's getting better.
On the internet there is access to so many resources.
If people want to find out how to put on a condom,
what is gonorrhea, like they can find
those kind of things out.
Because I think if you're a parent,
'cause what you don't want to do
is make your child traumatized
by awareness of sex too early.
- Will they be traumatized though, you don't?
- I think not if it's the science thing,
I think like the sperm and the eggs
and the babies growing inside of women
and all of that sort of thing is ok,
but you also don't want them to be the person
whose too liberated at 10,
and be like oh I left some innocence.
- 10 year olds talking about blow jobs.
- I've just had a pole dance in class,
'cause it's really good at burning calories.
(laughter erupts)
- Oh here's a thing, back to the sexual liberation,
'cause you said pole dancing,
can't remember who said it but I just saw
this quote online somewhere that said,
"you know the patriarchy has won"
"when women do pole dancing for exercise."
- [Sara] Yes. - Like to lose weight.
- Yea so the third way feminism, the beginning of it was
we're really liberated now so take your clothes off
and dance for us.
- How do you feel about pole dancing exercise classes
where it's only women?
- I honestly, I think I try so much
I completely understand why someone would go
and it would be fun and that it would be great exercise
and obviously pole dancers are so strong and musclely,
and I don't think like oh that is bad,
you should only be going to exercise classes in sacks.
I went to Zumba classes and I was really amazed
'cause Zumba classes are mostly females
and boys aren't told they can't come,
they're often just women and so it's really,
it felt like being in an ovary
and that anything was possible.
The teacher, all of the moves,
she kept making it very anti-men.
- Ok.
- I was like, oh if a man was here
I'd feel so uncomfortable 'cause we were like
slapping him round the face 'cause he'd come home drunk
and we were like grinding into guys
who weren't our husband first of all
but I loved it 'cause it was really cheeky.
- Yea, yea.
- Really cheeky, where if I--
- That's really weird.
I'm not sure how I feel about that.
- It was just sort of these middle aged ladies
having a really fun sexy time
because there was an absence of men
and because it was an unseen environment.
It does stop as you get older.
The men, the gropey men, not that they,
it all stops altogether, the really gropey men,
the predatory ones, they go for young girls.
- Yea.
My mom and I were having a conversation about that
because we were walking down the street
and then someone honked or cackled
and my mom was like, "oh that was probably for you."
And I was like that's not a good thing.
And then we had--
- No you don't be like oh was it, thank you,
I hope he comes back past.
- Then me and my mom were talking about it
and she was saying that when she was younger,
she would get cackled all the time and hated it.
Like, was really angry about it,
and then she kind of got a bit older
and then what happened was
is that she's now invisible as a middle aged woman,
she's like, hello?
Am I not beautiful?
To society anymore?
- So the people writing books about that now,
it's really fascinating and there is something
that happens at the end of fertility.
They're not invisible to us but suddenly
they'll feel like, oh I just don't get served
at the bar anymore like no one can see me,
or in the shops where people just walk into you
like you're not there.
- Yea. - [Sara] Yea.
And also the role of the grandmother
is really interesting because they're such nurturers,
so like in studies it's proved
that having a grandmother means a child
is more likely to survive childhood
than having a father around, because,
and so very few species have a menopause.
And the reason that human's have one
is so that the grandparents will give
all of their resources to grandchildren
in order to help--
- So they can't have more of their own children--
- Yes so they're not concentrated
on their own children.
So that whole thing is really fascinating
but it also means that invisibility
comes from like, 'cause everything
is for other people now, and grandmas are like that.
They're always giving.
- It's like, it's not about me anymore,
it's about to the future. - [Sara] The next generation.
At the Wow Festival, there was a woman
called Patricia Scotts and she's the first sexualist
to say for the common wealth.
And she was just in this green room talking,
she was just the most fascinating woman
you've ever heard.
And she was saying that what this government,
the Toridut government doesn't understand,
when they are cutting all of these,
the things that effect women and children,
is that when you give, when the government
gives money to women through wages,
or through benefits, there's more money
in the woman's pocket.
Women spend it on everyone rather than themselves.
It goes to their children, it goes to their husbands,
the money is really well shared out.
- Oh wow.
- And when the money's in the man's pocket,
it stays in the man's pocket.
Because women--
- That's so interesting.
- We're talking really broad stokes here,
so there are individuals within it,
selfish women in a lovely, lovely, great--
- Yea, but that's the general trend.
- Yes.
Which is why the whole thing like where people,
it's not about being anti-men,
it's about this is how you support everyone,
support women, you support everyone.
- So true.
I think we should leave at that.
- Cool.
- That's a great place to end it.
Thank you so much.
- Thank you so much. - [Hannah] For being,
on my channel.
Let's quickly plug Sara's book,
Animal: The Autobiography of the Female Body.
I'm very excited to read this.
Do you wanna give this a little like,
two lines about it?
- It's about, it's got some of my secrets in there,
and lots of research, and there's a picture
of a vagina I drew.
Can I show it on your channel?
- Yea, yea, yea.
- [Sara] That's the clitoris.
- [Hannah] Yep, seen that before.
- My boyfriend came as I scanning it
into the computer and he was like,
"what are you doing?"
- The vulva.
So it's like the history of the female body
and culture and literature and everything.
I'm very, 'cause it sounds right up my street.
Thank you guys so much and please
give the video a thumbs up if you enjoyed it
and let us know all of your thoughts
about everything that we've talked about
in the comments.
You can find Sara on Twitter.
Thanks for watching, bye!
(upbeat urban music)