>>> I HAVE GREAT CONFIDENCE IN MY INTELLIGENCE PEOPLE, BUT I
WILL TELL YOU THAT PRESIDENT
PUTIN WAS EXTREMELY STRONG AND
POWERFUL IN HIS DENIAL TODAY.
>> IT WAS BIZARRE STATEMENTS
LIKE THAT WHICH CAUSED FORMER
CIA DIRECTOR JOHN BREMAN TO CALL
IT NOTHING SHORT OF TREASONOUS.
SOMETHING IS GOING BEHIND THE
SCENES.
SCENES. BEFORE HESSLSINKI, I WAS UNSURE.
POST HELSINKI, I FEEL SICK.
REASONABLE PEOPLE CAN DISAGREE
OVER WHETHER TREASON IS BEING
COMMITTED.
COMMITTED. ARTICLE THREE OF THE U.S.
CONSTITUTION SAYS THE TREASON
AGAINST THE UNITED STATES SHALL
CONSIST ONLY IN LEVYING.
THE WRITER OF THE PIECE JOINS ME
NOW.
NOW. ALONG WITH JOYCE VANCE FORMER
U.S. DISTRICT ATTORNEY FOR
ALABAMA.
ALABAMA. DANIEL, LET ME START WITH YOU.
YOU SEEMED SHOCKED THAT YOU HAVE
REACHED A POINT THAT YOU WOULD
BE WRITING THOSE WORDS ABOUT
TREASON AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES.
UNITED STATES. A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, SOMEONE
WOULD HAVE CALLED THAT, AS RAND
PAUL SAID TRUMP DERANGEMENT
SYNDROME.
SYNDROME. BUT NOW IT IS NARROWING AND
NARROWING DOWN IN TERMS OF WHAT
THE POSSIBILITIES ARE.
>> THE QUESTION HAS BEEN WHEN WE
DEAL WITH TRUMP OR ANY PRESIDENT
THAT WE DISAGREE WITH.
AND WE FIND GENUINELY SHOCKING.
DO YOU EXPLAIN THIS THROUGH
INCOMPETENCE OR EXPLAIN THROUGH
MALLEV
MALLEV MALLEV
MALLEV MALLEVANCE.
MALLEVANCE. EITHER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
RADICAL INCOMPETENCE.
RADICAL INCOMPETENCE. OR WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
MALLEVANCE.
MALLEVANCE. WHY DOES HE TWEET OUT THAT HE
PREFERS VLADIMIR PUTIN TO THE
U.S. MAINSTREAM MEDIA.
IT IS A QUESTION OF REVEALED
PREFERENCES WHICH IS TRUMP
PREFERS FOREIGNERS WHO LIKE HIM
TO AMERICANS WHO ARE LOYAL
AMERICANS BUT NONETHELESS
DISAGREE WITH HIM.
A COMMON SAYING IN WASHINGTON IS
THE NOTION THAT REASONABLE
PEOPLE CAN DISAGREE ON
SOMETHING.
SOMETHING. AND THE FACT THAT REASONABLE
PEOPLE CAN DISAGREE WHETHER OR
NOT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TREASON
OR HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS,
I FIND SHOCKING AND SERIOUSLY
NAUSEATING.
NAUSEATING. >> JOYCE, I READ WHAT THE
CONSTITUTION SAYS ABOUT TREASON,
AND I DON’T KNOW HOW ONE PROVES
IT, WE ARE ALL PUZZLED AS TO WHY
THE PRESIDENT WOULD BE ACTING
THIS WAY.
THIS WAY. BUT A BROADER CONCEPT THAT YOU
TALK ABOUT WHEN IT COPS TO
TREASON.
TREASON. IN TERMS, AS WE HAVE DISCUSSED,
AS DANIEL HAS SAID, IN TERMS OF
THE REASON FOR THIS BEHAVIOR, IF
WE DECIDED IT IS NOT UTTER
INCOMPETENCE.
INCOMPETENCE. WE KNOW THE PRESIDENT IS
SUPPORTED BY SMART PEOPLE.
WE START LOOKING FOR OTHER
EXPLANATIONS.
EXPLANATIONS. >> WE THINK ABOUT TREASON AS
BEING A BETRAYAL OF TRUST AND
THAT IS WHAT IS AT THE CORE OF
THIS CONCEPT.
THIS CONCEPT. FOR FEDERAL PROSECUTORS YOU
ACTUALLY HAVE TO PROVE EVERY
SPECIFIC ELEMENT THAT IS
ESTABLISHED IN A STATUTE TO HAVE
A CONVICTION.
A CONVICTION. AND THAT IS DIFFICULT FOR
TREASON AMONG OTHER REASONS
BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT
WE WERE AT WAR WITH A COUNTRY
WITH THE COUNTRY THAT THE
DEFENDANT ALLEGEDLY PROVIDED AID
TO.
TO. THAT CAN’T HAPPEN HERE.
WE ARE NOT AT WAR WITH RUSSIA.
THE SAME SET OF FACTS THAT
DANIEL REFERENCES COULD BE USED
TO FORM A BASIS FOR IMPEACHMENT.
THERE IS A REAL DIFFERENCE HERE
BEFORE A LEGAL CRIMINAL
PROCEEDING AND WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN
IN THE POLITICAL PROCESS.
>> BETRAYAL IS A CONCEPT THAT
COULD EXIST AND BE BANDIED
AROUND.
AROUND. SENATOR FLAKE ALLUDED TO THAT.
LET’S LISTEN.
LET’S LISTEN. >> WHAT ISN’T A MYSTERY IS BY
CHOOSING TO REJECT OBJECT
REALITY IN HELSINKI, THE
PRESIDENT LET DOWN A FREE WORLD
BY GIVING AID.
>> SO DANIEL, THAT IS
INTERESTING.
INTERESTING. JEFF FLAKE USED THE WORDS THAT
THE CONSTITUTION USES WITH
RESPECT TO TREASON.
AND HE CALLED RUSSIA AN ENEMY OF
DEMOCRACY.
DEMOCRACY. BUT REALLY HE SAID THE THING
THAT MAY BE MORE IMPORTANT OVER
THE LAST TWO WEEKS OF THE
PRESIDENT’S BEHAVIOR BOTH IN
CANADA AND IN GREAT BRITAIN AND
IN BRUSSELS AND THEN IN HELSINKI
IS THAT HE HAS LET DOWN THE FREE
WORLD.
WORLD. BRETT STEVENS WAS TALKING TO ME,
AND SAID I DON’T KNOW IF DONALD
TRUMP BELIEVES IN A FREE WORLD.
IT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING WE DO
NOT EXPECT FROM THE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES
>> THE WAY I WOULD PUT IT IS THE
FOLLOWING.
FOLLOWING. INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS IF YOU
ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT
ARE OUR CORE NATIONAL INTERESTS,
WE ARE IN A SITUATION NOW WHERE
FRANKLY I THINK THE BIGGEST
NATIONAL SECURITY THREATS TO THE
UNITED STATES RESIDES IN THE
OVAL OFFICE OF 1600 PENNSYLVANIA
AVENUE.
AVENUE. I WILL DEFER TO THE LEGAL
QUESTION ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT
IS A HIGH STATUTORY BAR TO
PROVING TREASON.
PROVING TREASON. BUT IN SOME WAYS IT DOESN’T
MATTER WHETHER THE PRESIDENT IS
RADICALLY INCOMPETENT OR JUST
MALEVOLENT.
MALEVOLENT. THE POINT IS THAT HE IS NOT
SUGGESTING ANYTHING IN HIS
PLACE.
PLACE. NOW, TO BE FAIR, AGAIN, YOU
WOULD WANT, YOU KNOW, THE
PRESIDENT TO HAVE, YOU WOULD
WANT THE UNITED STATES TO HAVE
REASONABLY PRODUCTIVE
REASONABLY PRODUCTIVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHER GREAT
POWERS AND YOU PREFER
NEGOTIATING WITH NORTH KOREA TO
MANY OF THE ALTERNATIVES.
AND THERE IS DOING THIS WELL AND
DO IT INCOMPETENTLY, AND HE IS