Well hello there and welcome to this episode of The Terri Cole Show that I wanna start with
a question: does it ever feel like no matter how hard you try when you're talking with your partner
to get through to them when you're in conflict, that you just can't seem to do it? Do you find
that your partner is endlessly defensive? So no matter what you bring up, they say, "Well,
you do this too," or, "This is the reason I did it." Or maybe you are the defensive one? In this
episode, I'm gonna be talking all about really fair fighting, right? How can we have clean
conflict with the people in our lives? Because it's really impossible to not have conflict at
all. And if you're conflict avoidant, a lot of resentment usually grows under that. So in this
video we're gonna talk about clean conflict. How to communicate with a defensive partner,
like, different tips and ways that you can help make them less defensive with the way that you
approach them. And why it's important that we understand why we need clean conflicts. What is
it the benefit for us of having clean conflicts? But before we get into it, if you just happen to
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Boundaries For Epic Relationships. "Thanks for all your advice. I love watching you and have for
years. You're like the super wise, strong, loving, compassionate mother I wish I'd had Love
you." Well, I'm so happy to be anybody's good, kind, gentle, loving, caring internet mom. I'm
happy to do it. So I really appreciate you Mary Ellen, taking the time to write that.
It really does warm my heart because really you guys are the reason I do what I do, right?
I'd be doing something else if it wasn't for you. So thank you for being here with me on
YouTube. I appreciate you. Alright, let's move it on into today's content. Let's start with:
why is it important to be able to get the skills to have clean conflict in our relationships?
Because really, nothing productive happens when we don't. When we don't fight fair, even if
things seem resolved, the truth is that they're not. If we are sort of manipulating someone or
they're manipulating us or we're being guilted, there's so many ways of not having clean conflict,
of really fighting dirty in relationships. But again, none of that gets us what we want, which I
imagine is resolution, is something to change, is different behavior, is a different way of
interacting. So why is it important? Because this is how we build longevity and how relationships
become robust, is when we are able to withstand conflict and we can't avoid it forever.
Where- some people are really conflict avoidant, but what ends up happening if you're endlessly
conflict avoidant, is that you are missing the actual intimacy in the relationship because
we're so polite. We're not talking about the stuff that actually matters or the stuff that's actually
bothering us. Another thing to think about with conflict and fighting is you want to be mindful,
right? And I don't wanna say like, choose your battles wisely, but I guess I will. And what
I mean by that is be mindful. If you're in a crappy mood, you might just be itching for a
fight because you wanna discharge that energy. You might not even know it, right? But be mindful. If
you're in a bad mood and you find yourself being hypercritical, in your mind, of your partner,
take your bad mood into consideration. Because what they're doing probably wouldn't
bother you if you weren't in a crappy mood. So again, before I get into it with Vic about
anything, I really think through how I feel and what's important and where I'm coming from. I'm
mindful, am I displacing my aggression on him? Am I frustrated about something else? And sometimes
we can be frustrated with our partner about something that is more threatening to talk about,
but since we don't wanna do that, we end up being nitpicky about small s**t because that's
less threatening. But again, it's also way less effective because the person doesn't even know
what the problem is. Make sense? We wanna also be mindful of how we are responding, right? We are
seeking to respond instead of react. I like the idea of like taking a beat, taking a moment, and
saying, you know what? I need to think about this. So let's circle back this afternoon or whatever.
If you need to buy time, buy time, even if your partner doesn't like it. I was just writing this
part in the new book, which is called Too Much, which comes out in October of 2024, about
how Vic, my husband and I, we've been married 25 years in October, that we deal with our emotions
when we're upset differently. And I feel like it might be common, not super, but I like to talk
immediately and he needs a little bit of time to process how he feels and what he is thinking. And
over the many years, in the beginning, this was a conflict for us because I was like, is he trying
to punish me? Is he avoiding me? Is he being passive aggressive? And then once we had a little
bit of couples therapy and we talked about it, I really got to understand that this is just the
way he needs to process his feelings. And then we come to an agreement where he'll come back to me
in a couple hours, like, can we take a break? But in a couple of hours he will come back and we
will have the conversation. But it took years for me to not get my instant gratification need met,
to like, I need to talk about this right now. But I built the trust in him because when he said,
"Let's come back in two hours," he would come back in two hours and be able to tolerate having the
conversation. So I guess we built up the trust, but it takes a little bit of time
to find that in the relationship. So anyway, responding mindfully and with mutual respect.
'Cause even if you're in conflict with your person, they're still your person, right? So
you still wanna be relating to them in a loving and generous way, to the best of your ability.
I love Dr. Becky. She's got this great thing. She talks about "the most generous interpretation"
as opposed to "the least generous interpretation." And her theory has to do with parenting children.
But this theory really does hold up very well when we're talking about having clean conflict
in your relationship or any relationships for that matter, where it's very easy to make the
least generous assumption about why the person did the thing that bothered you or didn't do the thing
that you wanted them to do. And when we have the most generous assumption, we're way less likely to
jump to negative conclusions. Part of being in a relationship is holding your person in high esteem
instead of making the least generous assumption. Work to make the most generous assumption about
why they didn't do the thing. So let's talk about clean conflict or fighting fair. And we really
wanna not hit below the belt, right? So what does that mean? No blaming,
no interpreting what they really meant. No diagnosing, no psychoanalyzing, no preaching,
demoralizing, ordering, threatening, labeling, interrogating, ridiculing,
shaming and lecturing. And that is a list from one of my faves, Dr. Harriet Lerner, about what
does below the belt look like. And I want you to keep that list in mind. And I feel like when
we're not in conflict is when I've made the most productive agreements with my husband about the
way we will interact when we are in conflict. It's obviously way easier to come up with agreements
when you're not mad at each other, you're not upset about something. So agreeing that neither
one of you will indulge in below the belt tactics is super important. And this is how we protect the
relationship because again, conflict can be great for a relationship. Meaning we become closer,
we know each other better after that conflict. And when we can successfully resolve the conflict,
this is what creates durability in the relationship. But the damage that happens when we
are blaming, interpreting, diagnosing, labeling, all the things that I listed, that's stuff that
lingers. So we wanna be really mindful not to do it. And what do you do when you have a spouse
who is really conflict avoidant? So someone in my Facebook group posted, "I found that sometimes the
other person won't have the difficult conversation because the underlying assumption I'm carrying as
I start the conversation or ask questions are already putting them at a disadvantage. It's
taken me some time to work through this and see my side of the street." So again,
talking about making assumptions and interpreting the other person's behavior, that's basically
what they're talking about. Especially if you know that your person is conflict avoidant.
How do we go in with a spouse or a partner, or even a sister who is really anti-conflict,
which many of us have those people? And listen, keep in mind, I don't love a conflict. Like,
I'm not looking to have a fight, but I am looking to resolve issues because I know that the issues
that we let fester in our lives are the ones that undo our relationships. It is so damaging,
that resentment. It's just corrosive when it comes to the relationships themselves. So moving
into how do we approach a defensive partner or a partner who is very conflict avoidant? I like
to start with a gentle intro when everything is calm, right? You don't wanna like attack
them the second they walk in the door. It's like doing it gently and almost with a
neutral or a kind vibe is gonna make that person respond better. And then the next one is You
First, meaning focus on how do we create emotional safety? Part of it is maybe you share something,
start with your own vulnerable feelings about something, whether it's sadness or disappointment,
it could be anxiety, but don't lead with anger and frustration because especially for someone
who is conflict avoidant, that is gonna really turn them off. And a lot of people who are
conflict avoidant for lots of good reasons, they don't have control over their nervous system.
Like they can literally just shut down. And it can be so infuriating when you're dealing with
someone who's shut down. But a lot of times from a physiological and psychological perspective, there
is not much of a choice there for some people, especially if there's a trauma background.
So again, you wanna go in and if you are not afraid to be emotionally vulnerable, you can say,
"This really bummed me out." Or, "This really made me sad," rather than going in with guns blazing
because this actually makes nobody wanna talk to you, but conflict avoidant people and defensive
people even more so. And then another smart thing to do for your own brain is to manage your
own expectation and know that it's gonna take a minute to change whatever dynamic, whatever dance
you've been in with your partner, it's gonna take a minute to change that. So don't expect that the
first time, right? You're just trying to initiate this conversation in a different way. And if it
doesn't go perfectly, that's okay. Just know this is a long game. I can tell you right now,
you guys, my entire life is a long game and there is something so helpful and productive about
thinking about your relationship that way. You know, 25 years I've been married, I've been
with my husband 27 years, that's a long game where like I committed to until death do us part. And I
know not everybody makes it. That's okay, but I didn't plan on getting married. I think of the
union as a forever prospect because that's what it is for us. So I don't expect that the conflicts
we have, we will fix them overnight, but I'm also not willing to give up on the relationship
growing and changing, and neither is Vic. We will have our state of the union. This is the last
thing that I wanna tell you about that can be helpful. Doing a state of the union,
it's something that I call, it's sort of like you wanna start by having a couple's vision, right? So
that's more of a long-term thing. Where do you wanna spend your time? If you have expendable
income, where do you wanna spend that? What are the things you like to do for your hobbies? Who
do you like to spend time with? How much time do you wanna spend together as a couple? How much
separate time? That's what the couple's vision is. And then every week or every other week, Vic
and I do what I call a State of the Union where we do ours on Sunday morning in bed every other
week where we just talk about how we're doing. Is there stuff that needs to be discussed? We
start with gratitude. "Thank you for helping me do this. I appreciate you changing that. I
am...I appreciate your support. I know that I was sort of being snappy the other day,
but I appreciate your patience for that." All of those types of things is how we start our
State of the Union, where then we move it into what do we need to work on? "I have to say,
I didn't like the fact that you committed us to do something on Saturday without clearing
it with me first, even though it's with people that I really like and you really like. I would
really appreciate it if you asked me before saying yes." Right? Those are small things,
but they're things that if we don't talk about them, they build up and they become big things.
So on the other side, as this long game of clean conflict keeps going on, right, your relationship
gets better and better. And then the State of the Union is the proactive strategy that you can take,
even though it can be after the fact, right? It can be before the fact and it can be after the
fact. But what we're doing is we're designating a specific time and we are normalizing talking about
things that can be difficult. So basically there's an expectation when we have the State of the Union
that we're gonna talk about what's good, what could we work on? What could be better. So again,
everyone has skin in the game. When you do a state of the union regularly, it doesn't even
have to be long, right? Vic and I, it's usually like a half an hour that we're just shooting the
s**t talking, but we're getting things done. And what it ends up doing is it ends up clearing
the deck. Like if there's any lingering resentment about anything or anything that I need to talk to
him about, but I haven't talked to him about that, it gives me the opportunity to actually
have that conversation in a luxurious way with us both having the expectation that that's what
we're doing there. I've seen it work wonders for couples. I will include all of that for you in
the guide. Go to terricole.com/guide and remember, you guys, be kind, right? You chose this person,
they chose you. So even when you're frustrated, remember words have wings,
right? And they can also be weapons. And it's like, even if you say something in the heat of the
moment that you quote unquote "don't mean" - once it leaves your mouth like, it's in the world.
And I can still think of things that people said to me 30 years ago that hurt my feelings,
that were painful. Like they really can do damage to your relationship. And that's why when you get
really good at having clean conflict and then move it into being proactive, you are doing
such a service to all of your relationships, right? Because we want clean conflict in all
of our relationships. Anyway, I wanna know if this actually added value to your life, let
me know. You know I hang out mostly on Instagram. Go get the guide, terricole.com/guide. Thank you,
thank you, thank you for spending time with me today and as always, take care of you.