Dmitry, it's been over a year now of what in Russia is called "special military operation"
and in the rest of the world - a war.
Many in Russia still support Vladimir Putin, thinking that victory is better than national
shame.
What could you say to that?
It's been 482 days of the special military operation.
At the very beginning of it people were stunned, many without any doubt believed that if we
hadn't attacked we would be attacked, many even thought that Cain killed Abel because
Abel was going to kill Abel.
But now, all the purposes declared at the beginning stopped working.
I have developed an own sociological method: once a week I check the price for T-Shirts
with the symbols of the special military operation - letters V and Z.
Over the last 482 days they have dropped in price by approximately 85 percent.
The war doesn't sell.
Does Putin have support?
Absolutely.
No authority has ever stayed in power without people's support.
Putin has support of the older generation.
I can tell you the figures: about 80 percent of people under the age of 35 are against
the special military operation, they want peace as soon as possible.
But about the same number of elderly people demand victory.
They feel greatness again.
It's the situation when you can't overcome poverty,
so you should give greatness instead.
This is what happened.
The older generation believes Vladimir Putin, he is like a son, a great son and a father
for them.
And that’s the case.
Don't make the situation simper than it actually is.
You just said that the war doesn't sell.
What should happen for people to understand the scale of the tragedy of what they call
in Russia special military operation?
You can realize the scale of the tragedy when you see it.
But propaganda needs monopoly - all alternative sources of information were closed in Russia.
Most journalists are expelled.
30 percent of almost 300 foreign agents in Russia are journalists.
All investigative startups, big independent of the
Russian state media like Meduza, Echo of Moscow, TV Rain, Novaya Gazeta are either closed or
in exile.
This is why propaganda is a monopoly.
And if Russia's authorities manage to ban YouTube, Telegram, Wikipedia, propaganda will
fulfill its mission, will become a monopolist - and then it will be incredibly easy to rule
the country.
Many of those in Europe, Germany, all over the world who speak for peace, say that Ukraine
could make some territorial concessions for peace to be reached.
What could you say to that as someone who received a Nobel Peace Prize?
Look, I have always been a staunch opponent of bloodshed, since I've been to many wars
and seen something I don't even want to remember.
At the same time I understand one thing: only the people of Ukraine can answer the question
whether they should keep defending its country or stop.
Delegations can come to them, influential retired politicians can write letters to them,
can negotiate and bargain with them.
But doesn't anyone see that yet?
In Ukraine, the society is much stronger than the state.
In Russia, on the contrary, the state is much stronger than the society.
So none of the most tricky plans can be brought to life without asking the opinion of people
in Ukraine.
So it's necessary to talk to the Ukrainian people, to show them the pros and cons of
any plans.
And only when the Ukrainian people say let it be so or else - then something will change.
Before then it's not possible.
Czech President Petr Pavel said recently that Russians living in the West should be subject
to a tighter scrutiny.
Do you agree with that?
XXXX -- OFFRECORD (he didn't get the question)
Let's ask this question in different way.
Are there any spies among the Russians living in exile?
What do you think?
It's quite possible.
Sure.
How can it be any other way?
Are all Russian spies?
Of course not.
How many Russians don't want to be killed or kill?
Most of them.
And anyone who doesn't want to kill or be killed is considered a spy, then we are definitely
on the way to the times of McCathysm.
I'm sure it is that the generation which is leaving in order not to kill or be killed,
which wants to be fulfilled, needs to be helped and not restricted in rights.
Is it appropriate at all to talk about human rights in times of war?
Well, it's exactly now, in times of this massacre that it is appropriate to talk about human
rights.
It's the time.
Because as soon as one forgets about it just a little, then the hell happens - like the
one we live in now.
The last question.
There will come a time when the war is over.
How do you see the future of Russia on the international scene after the war?
I know you're not an astrologist or futurologist but still.
I am not an astrologist or futurologist and thank God I'm not a political scientist.
I know what a report or an investigation is but I know nothing about the future.
What I know is that we should live now.
It's necessary to record the war crimes of any of the sides involved into this.
It's necessary to seek the return of illegally kept children, it's necessary to exchange
captives.
Dmitry Lubinets (The Human Rights Commissioner of the Verkhovna Rada - Ed.), on the one side
and Tatyana Moskalkova (Russia's Human Rights Commissioner - Ed.) are making tremendous
efforts.
Together they are very efficient, even though they are very different, conflicting.
One serves one president, the other one - another president.
But it's necessary to help them.
As I see it, international organizations which are not considered a feuding party to Russia
- for example UNICEF or the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations - should
put their best effort into minimizing the consequences of the conflict.
What I mean is that there are 5,5 million children among Ukrainian refugees.
Their present has been stolen.
It is important to make sure that their future is not lost.
That's what the efforts should be combined for.
But what happens in the future or when the last shot is fired or whether it is fired
in our lifetime, I don't know.
I only know that we shouldn’t wait for anything but should work and act here and now, no matter
what.