SHARMINI PERIES, EXEC. PRODUCER, TRNN: Welcome to the Real News Network. I'm Sharmini Peries
coming to you from Baltimore.
If fleeing refugees are an indicator one could conclude that there is a global surge in war,
conflict, and persecution that has caused a record number of people to flee their homes
in search of safety. Well, the United Nations refugee agency reports that there is a record
high 60 million displaced people amid expanding global conflicts. If you have been wondering
what is exactly causing this exodus, refugees putting their lives and the lives of their
children at risk, our next guest Patrick Cockburn is trying to put this in context in a series
published in the Independent.
Patrick Cockburn is a correspondent for the Independent and was awarded Foreign Reporter
of the Year at the 2015 Press Awards. He's the author of many books, among them The Rise
of the Islamic State: ISIS and the New Sunni Revolution. Patrick, thank you for joining
us this evening.
PATRICK COCKBURN: Thank you.
PERIES: So Patrick, let's put this in context. Now, you wrote that we are in an era of violence
in the Middle East and North Africa, with nine civil wars going on in Islamic countries
between Pakistan and Nigeria. Elaborate on this, and what is causing this exodus.
COCKBURN: Well, we're in an era of extreme violence. These aren't just wars, they're
civil wars. And they're particularly bloody and cruel civil wars, stretching from Afghanistan,
Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Somalia, South Sudan, Northeast Nigeria. And some of these
started some time ago, in 1991 in Somalia, but most of them are fairly recent, and it's
getting worse. I mean, fighting is now spreading in Southeast Turkey. There were 16 Turkish
soldiers killed at the weekend by Kurdish guerrillas.
But the heart of it is the war in Iraq and Syria. From Syria we already have 4 million
refugees. In Iraq, even just in the last year, we've had 2.6 million refugees. So it's the
tremendous, horrific conflict going on in these two countries, essentially fueled by
the caliphate, so-called Islamic State, fighting the Iraqi government, fighting the Syrian
government. Other jihadis also there that is leading to people fleeing these countries.
And people, certainly in Europe, they were conscious these wars were going on. But they've
really only struck home I think when these people started reaching the shores of Europe,
reaching Hungary, trying to get to Germany. And when they saw this poor little Kurdish
boy, Aylan Kurdi, lying dead on a beach in Turkey. So it's quite recent that people have
realized the full calamity of what's happened.
PERIES: The war is at their shores. But Patrick, this has been going on for a long time. I
mean, the war in Iraq and Syria is not new. What is causing this specific exodus at this
time, escalated in these numbers?
COCKBURN: The exodus from Syria has been going on quite some time, since 2011, 2012. but
remember, a lot of these people thought they were going home. They thought this war would
be over, they went into Turkey, they went to Lebanon, they went to Jordan. And they
thought maybe a year, maybe at worst two years and we'll be going home. A number of things
have happened. The war hasn't ended. That's true of all these nine wars, actually. They
don't seem to be ending. This war in particular hasn't ended. So you have people who are living
in Turkey, they didn't have jobs. Their house may have been in ruins back in Syria.
So now, you know, they're despairing and they think, well, we're going to be permanently
in exile. So that's why they're heading off to Germany, that says it'll give them sanctuary,
and anywhere else they can go.
PERIES: All right, Patrick. Let's come back in part two and examine this a little further.
Thank you for joining us.
COCKBURN: Thank you.
PERIES: And thank you for joining us on the Real News Network.