REPORTING FROM DALLAS.
CASEY, THANKS FOR THAT.
BUT DEEP-FREEZE IN TEXAS AND THE
BREAKDOWN IN THE STATE’S POWER
GRID HAVE RENEWED QUESTIONS
ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND HOW WE
PRODUCE THE ENERGY WE NEED.
I STOPPED ON EARLIER WITH
BILL GATES, WHO IS OUT WITH A
NEW BOOK, "HOW TO AVOID A
CLIMATE DISASTER," AND WE BEGAN
WITH THE TROUBLES IN TEXAS THESE
LAST FEW DAYS.
>> Chris: BILL, WELCOME BACK
TO "FOX NEWS SUNDAY."
>> Bill: GREAT TO TALK TO YOU.
>> Chris: MILLIONS OF PEOPLE
WERE AFFECTED BY THE POWER
OUTAGES IN TEXAS THIS WEEK AND
THE GOVERNOR, GREG ABBOTT,
BLAMED IT ON ALTERNATIVE ENERGY
SOURCES.
HERE HE IS.
>> THIS SHOWS HOW THE
GREEN NEW DEAL WOULD BE A DEADLY
DEAL FOR THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA.
IF THE BITE AND IT
ADMINISTRATION IS TRY TO
ERADICATE FOSSIL FEELS IN THE
UNITED STATES, EVERY STATE IS
GOING TO CONSTANTLY HAVE
CHALLENGES LIKE WHAT AMERICA HAS
SEEN TAKE PLACE IN TEXAS RIGHT
NOW.
>> Chris: THE GOVERNOR SAYS
THAT WIND TURBINES ESPECIALLY
FAILED AND CREATED THIS CRISIS.
YOUR RESPONSE?
>> Bill: WELL, IT’S NOT AT ALL
TRUE.
AT THE FAILURE TO WEATHERIZE
SOME OF THE NUCLEAR SENSORS AND
NATURAL GAS PLANTS AND EVEN SOME
OF THE WIND ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR
THEIR POWER SHORTAGE IN THE WIND
IS A TINY PART OF IT.
IT WAS MOSTLY THE THERMAL
GENERATORS THAT WENT OFF-LINE
BECAUSE THEY HAVEN’T BEEN
WEATHERIZED.
OBVIOUSLY WIND WORKS IN
NORTH DAKOTA, IT WORKS IN
ALASKA.
WE KNOW HOW TO WEATHERIZE WIND
TURBINES.
THE WIND DOES COME AND GO, BUT
WHAT SHUT DOWN THE VAST MAJORITY’S THERMAL PLANTS HERE.
MAJORITY’S THERMAL PLANTS HERE.
SO, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A
RELIABILITY ISSUE THAT WILL HAVE
TO DESIGN THE SYSTEM INCLUDING
MORE TRANSMISSION.
YOU KNOW, TEXAS OVERTIME WILL
WANT TO CONNECT UP SO THAT WHEN
IT DOES GET SHORTAGES, IT’S ABLE
TO DRAW ON OTHER PARTS OF THE
COUNTRY.
>> Chris: AS YOU KNOW, A LOT
OF PEOPLE HERE AT FOX NEWS THAT
WATCH US QUESTION WHETHER
CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL AND HOW
MUCH OF IT IS MAN-MADE AND THEY
ALSO QUESTION WHETHER IT’S HEAT
OR FREEZING COLD, WHETHER IT’S
FLOODS OR DROUGHT, THAT IT’S ALL
CLIMATE CHANGE, SO MAKE YOUR
BEST CASED TO THE FOLKS WHO THIS
PAST WEEK HAVE BEEN FREEZING IN
TEXAS.
>> Bill: WELL, THE CHANGE IN
THE WIND PATTERN IS ALLOWING
THOSE COLD FRONTS TO COME DOWN
FROM CANADA MORE OFTEN.
THERE IS A PATTERN OF WIND THAT
AS IT GETS WARMER, THAT BREAKS
DOWN.
THERE’S NO DOUBT THAT WE ARE
PUTTING CO2 INTO THE ATMOSPHERE,
THERE’S NO DOUBT THAT THAT
INCREASES TEMPERATURES AND THAT
AFFECTS THE WEATHER.
AND SO THE ILL EFFECTS, WHETHER
IT’S FARMING IN TEXAS BEING
CHANGED OR WILDFIRES OR CORAL
REEFS DYING OFF, THERE IS, YOU
KNOW, SUPERHARD EVIDENCE THE
OCEAN RISING.
I DO THINK IT’S FAIR THAT PEOPLE
HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS ON THE
TACTICS TO DEAL WITH CLIMATE
CHANGE.
IN FACT, HAVING BOTH PARTIES
THINKING ABOUT THAT IS GOING TO
BE VERY IMPORTANT AS WE GO
FORWARD.
BUT THIS IS A REAL CHALLENGE AND
IT’S GREAT TO SEE THAT
PARTICULARLY YOUNG REPUBLICANS
ARE JOINING IN AND SAYING THAT
THIS IS SOMETHING THEY CARE
ABOUT BEYOND THEIR OWN
INDIVIDUAL SUCCESS, MORALLY
PRESERVING THESE ECOSYSTEMS,
ALLOWING A LIVABLE PLANET.
THEY CARE ABOUT THAT.
>> Chris: BUT CRITICS SAY, YOU
KNOW, IT’S EASY TO TALK ABOUT
GETTING OFF FOSSIL FUELS.
IT’S EASY TO TALK ABOUT GOING TO
A PLANT-BASED DIET, BUT THE
REALITY IS THAT HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WILL LOSE
THEIR JOBS, THAT THE COAL MINERS
IN WEST VIRGINIA OR THE
LIVESTOCK RANCHERS IN NEVADA --
IN NEBRASKA WILL BE WIPED OUT.
>> Bill: IT’S VERY IMPORTANT
AS WE SOLVE THIS PROBLEM THAT WE
NOT CAUSE THOSE COMMUNITY
DISLOCATIONS.
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A 30 OR
TRANSITION PERIOD.
THE SKILL SETS INVOLVED, WHETHER
IT’S MAKING CLEAN HYDROGEN,
SEQUESTERING CO2, YOU KNOW, THE
ENGINEERING SKILL SETS, THE
THINGS THAT THOSE WORKERS DO
WILL BE IMPORTANT.
IN FACT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO
ALMOST TRIPLE THE SIZE OF THE
ELECTRIC GRID AND BUILD ALL THAT
TRANSMISSION, AND SO IT’S NOT
LIKE IT’S GOING TO BE A SHORTAGE
OF JOBS OVERALL, IT’S JUST
BALANCING TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU
KNOW, EACH COMMUNITY FITS INTO
THE PLAN.
>> Chris: LET’S TALK ABOUT
YOUR BOOK.
YOU SAY THAT WE HAVE TO GO FROM
THE 51 BILLION TONS OF
GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS, FROM
51 BILLION TONS TO 0.
0 BY THE YEAR 2050 AND THAT
ANYTHING LESS THAN THAT WILL
PRECIPITATE A CATASTROPHE.
>> Bill: WELL, YES.
THE CO2 STAYS IN THE ATMOSPHERE
FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS AND
THAT’S WHAT FORCES THE
TEMPERATURES TO GO UP AND SO
IT’S REALLY THE SUM OF ALL THOSE
EMISSIONS STARTING IN THE
INDUSTRIAL AGE THAT’S CAUSING
THIS TEMPERATURE WITH ALL OF ITS
ILL EFFECTS.
YOU KNOW, THERE’S NO MAGIC DATE
THAT IT’S ALL GREAT UNTIL THEN
AND IT’S, YOU KNOW, TERRIBLE
ONCE YOU CROSS THE THRESHOLD,
IT’S PRETTY LINEAR AS FAR AS WE
KNOW.
2050 HAPPENS TO BE THE SOONEST
REALISTIC DATE FOR THE WORLD TO
CHANGE ALL OF THESE SOURCE
ADMISSIONS WHICH ARE ACTUALLY
QUITE BROADER THAN MOST PEOPLE
ARE AWARE OF BECAUSE IT’S GOT
THINGS LIKE STEEL AND CEMENT,
NOT JUST CARS AND ELECTRICITY.
>> Chris: I WANT TO PICK UP ON
THAT BECAUSE YOU SAY IN YOUR
BOOK, DON’T FULL YOURSELVES,
THIS IS GOING TO BE HARD AND YOU
HAVE A CHART THAT I WANT TO PUT
UP IN YOUR BOOK ABOUT HOW MUCH
GREEN MARCH DOME AT GREENHOUSE
GASES EMITTED BY WHAT WE DO,
MAKING THINGS, CEMENT, STEEL,
PLASTIC.
31% OF ALL EMISSIONS, PLUGGING
IN, ELECTRICITY, 27% GROWING
THINGS, 19% GETTING AROUND,
TRANSPORTATION, 16% AND KEEPING
WARM AND COOL, 7%.
YOU SAY A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT
WE ARE FOCUSED ON NOW LIKE
ELECTRIC VEHICLES ARE IMPORTANT,
BUT THAT’S THE EASY PART.
>> Bill: EXACTLY.
IF ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS A 30%
REDUCTION, THEN YOU SHOULD TAKE
THE EASIEST 30%, BECAUSE THE
GOAL IS TO GET TO 0, YOU’VE GOT
TO WORK IN PARALLEL NOT JUST ON
THE EASY STUFF, BUT ALSO ON THE
VERY HARD STUFF.
YOU’VE GOT TO INCREASE R&D
BUDGETS, YOU’VE GOT TO HAVE LOTS
OF RISK CAPITAL TO MAKE THESE
PRODUCTS IN A NEW WAY AND
HOPEFULLY CREATE COMPANIES THAT
NOT ONLY BUILD JOBS, BUT EXPORT
THESE GREEN APPROACHES TO THE
ENTIRE WORLD.
>> Chris: YOU ADMIT AT THE
VERY START OF YOUR BOOK IN THE
OPENING PAGES THAT YOU ARE AN
IMPERFECT MESSENGER FOR ALL THIS
THIS.
YOU ADMIT, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE YOU
LIVE IN BIG HOUSES, YOU FLY
AROUND IN PRIVATE JETS AND HAVE
A BIG CARBON FOOTPRINT, SO HOW
DO YOU ANSWER PEOPLE WHO SAY,
WELL, WHO WAS BILL GATES TO
PREACH TO US?
>> Bill: THAT’S ABSOLUTELY
RIGHT.
I AM OFFSETTING MY CARBON
EMISSIONS BY BUYING CLEAN
AVIATION FUEL AND FUNDING CARBON
CAPTURE AND FUNDING LOW-COST
HOUSING PROJECTS TO USE
ELECTRICITY INSTEAD OF NATURAL
GAS AND SO I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO
ELIMINATE IT AND IT WAS AMAZING
TO ME HOW EXPENSIVE THAT WAS.
YOU KNOW, THAT COST OF BEING
GREEN, THE GREEN PREMIUM, WE’VE
GOT TO DRIVE THAT DOWN, BUT TO
ME, MY EXPERIENCE IN INNOVATION
AND THINKING ABOUT THE RIGHT
METRICS, I FELT LIKE IF WE HAVE
THIS IDEALISTIC GENERATION AND
THIS WONDERFUL GOAL, WE NEED A
PLAN AND THAT MY EXPERIENCE
COULD HELP CONTRIBUTE THAT PLAN.
>> Chris: THEN, THERE ARE THE
CRITICS ON THE LEFT WHO SAY THAT
YOU ARE BEHIND THE CURVE AND
THAT IN FACT YOU SHOULD BE
SUPPORTING THE GREEN NEW DEAL
AND GOING FOR ZERO NET EMISSIONS
NOT IN 2050, BUT IN 2030.
>> Bill: YEAH, IT’S COMPLETELY
UNREALISTIC TO THINK WE COULD
ELIMINATE EMISSIONS BY 2030 AND
NOT SEEING THAT THIS PROBLEM IS
HARD IS -- WILL BE PART OF THE
DIFFICULTY OF GETTING ENGAGED
INTO IT, SO WHERE I COME OUT,
AND I’LL TRY TO, YOU KNOW, HAVE
GREAT DEBATES WITH PEOPLE, IS
THAT IT’S VERY HARD, WE ARE
GOING TO HAVE TO USE ALL 30
YEARS, BUT IT’S NOT IMPOSSIBLE.
>> Chris: AND WHAT HAPPENS IF
WE DON’T MAKE IT, IF WE DON’T
GET TO 0 NET EMISSIONS BY 2050?
WHAT -- HOW WILL OUR DAILY LIVES
BE DIFFERENT?
>> Bill: WELL, THE MIGRATION
THAT WE SAW OUT OF SYRIA FOR
THEIR CIVIL WAR, WHICH WAS
SOMEWHAT WEATHER-DEPENDENT, WE
ARE GOING TO HAVE TEN TIMES AS
MUCH MIGRATION BECAUSE THE EQUAL
TOILERS WILL BECOME UNLIVABLE.
YOU WON’T BE ABLE TO FARM OR GO
OUTSIDE DURING THE SUMMER.
THE WILDFIRES, THE DASH EVEN THE
FARMING PRODUCTIVITY IN SOUTH OF
THE U.S., THE DROUGHTS WILL
REDUCE PRODUCTIVITY VERY
DRAMATICALLY.
AND YOU KNOW, IT’S ALL A MATTER
OF DEGREE.
IF WE WAIT TEN MORE YEARS, IT’S
NOT AS BAD AS IF YOU WAIT 20 OR
YOU WAIT 30, BECAUSE THE
TEMPERATURE JUST KEEPS GOING UP
AND IT’S GOING UP MORE RAPIDLY
THAN IT HAS IN NATURAL HISTORY,
BUT THE INSTABILITY OVERALL WILL
BE FIVE TIMES AS MANY DEATHS AT
THE PEAK OF THE PANDEMIC AND
GOING UP EVERY YEAR.
>> Chris: AND THE TIME WE HAVE
LEFT A WANT TO ASK ABOUT A
COUPLE OF OTHER SUBJECTS.
YOU HAVE COME ON
"FOX NEWS SUNDAY" A COUPLE OF
TIMES IN THE LAST YEAR TO TALK
ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.
HOW DO YOU THINK WE ARE DOING
RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF VACCINE
MANUFACTURING, DISTRIBUTION, IN
TERMS OF REOPENING SCHOOLS AND
OUR GENERAL ECONOMY?
>> Bill: WE WILL HAVE TO BUY
VACCINES THAT ALL WORK VERY WELL
WELL.
SOMEWHAT LESS AGAINST THE
VARIANCE, BUT THIS IS GIVING US
LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL.
WE DO NEED TO GET THE LOGISTICS
RIGHT AND THEN WE WILL BE
LIMITED BY THE DEMAND, YOU KNOW,
IN MINORITY COMMUNITIES, PEOPLE
WHO ARE TRUSTED, SPOKEN OUT
ABOUT THE BENEFITS OF GETTING
THE VACCINE, BUT I’M HOPEFUL
THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE GOING TO
GET MORE SCHOOLS REOPENED, BY
THE TIME WE GET TO THE FALL WE
SHOULD AVOID TO WAIT THERE
BECAUSE THE LEVEL OF VACCINATION
WILL BE VERY HIGH.
>> Chris: FINALLY, TWITTER HAS
BANNED DONALD TRUMP PERMANENTLY
AND FACEBOOK IS CONSIDERING
DOING THE SAME.
WHAT YOU THINK OF THAT?
>> Bill: WELL, I’M JUST ONE
CITIZEN ON THIS ISSUE.
THE DASH I THINK HE SAID A LOT
OF THINGS ABOUT THE ILLEGITIMACY
OF THE ELECTION THAT ARE
CORROSIVE, BUT THE IDEA THAT
THAT’S -- YOU END UP WITH A
LIFETIME BAN, YOU KNOW, THAT --
IT SEEMS LIKE WE SHOULD DISCUSS,
WE DON’T WANT TO PARTITION AND
HAVE, YOU KNOW, A SOCIAL NETWORK
FOR ONE PARTY AND ANOTHER SOCIAL
NETWORK.
WE WANT TO HAVE A COMMON BASE
WHERE WE ARE EXCHANGING IDEAS
AND THOUGHTS.
SO I THINK THESE ARE EARLY DAYS
ON HOW WE KEEP THE GOOD PARTS OF
SOCIAL MEDIA AND YET NOT SPREAD
VIOLENCE OR, YOU KNOW, VACCINE
DENIAL, HOLOCAUST DENIAL.
THERE’S GOT TO BE SOME WAY THAT
BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT AND THE
WELL-MEANING ACTORS, WE DRAW THE
LINE SO WE KEEP THE OPEN DEBATE
WITHOUT THE CORROSIVE PARTS.
>> Chris: BILL GATES, THE NAME
OF THE BOOK, "HOW TO AVOID THE