CASKET COMES THROUGH THE CROWD.
BUT AS DEMONSTRATIONS -- AND WE
CAN ACTUALLY MAYBE KEEP THAT IN
THE BOTTOM CORNER.
AS DEMONSTRATIONS AGAINST POLICE
BRUTALITY HAVE TAKEN HOLD, THERE
HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF INSTANCES
WHERE VIRAL VIRDDEOS HAVE CAPTUR
THE WAY SOME POLICE FORCES HAVE
RESPONDED TO PROTESTS USING
BATONS, RUBBER BULLETS AND OTHER
RIOT TACTICS TO DEAL WITH
CROWDS.
IN ANOTHER WATERSHED MOMENT, AS
COMMUNITIES GRAPPLE WITH REINING
IN THE POLICIES AND PRACTICES
THAT LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT USE
AGAINST AMERICAN CITIZENS.
JOINING ME IS CAPTAIN SONIA
PRUITT OF THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY,
KIMBERLY CRENSHAW JOINS ME
PROFESSOR AT COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL
AND UCLA LAW AND THE EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN
POLICY FORUM AND NBC
CORRESPONDENT JAKE WARD JOINS
ME.
JAKE HAS BEEN STUDYING IMPLICIT
BIAS AND WAYS TO REFORM POLICE
DEPARTMENTS FOR SOME YEARS NOW.
THANK YOU TO AUMLL OF YOU.
KIMBERLY, LET ME START WITH YOU,
THE ONE THING WE HAVE NOT SEEN
IS ACTION TAKEN -- SATISFYING
ACTION TAKEN IN LOUISVILLE,
KENTUCKY, ABOUT THE DEATH OF
BREONNA TAYLOR ON MARCH 13th.
SHE WOULD HAVE TURNED 27
YESTERDAY.
THERE HAVE BEEN SOME NEW RULES
INSTITUTED FOR POLICE THERE
PARTICULARLY ABOUT USING BODY
CAMERAS AND PUTTING THEM ON
BEFORE A WARRANT IS KPERDSEXERCI
BUT THERE ISN’T A LOT OF
SATISFACTION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED
THERE.
>> THERE ISN’T A LOT OF
SATISFACTION AT ALL.
IT DOESN’T GET TO THE ROOT OF
THE PROBLEM.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BREONNA
TAYLOR CASE, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH
THE POLICE OFFICERS SOUGHT FIVE
WARRANTS FOR THAT ENTRY, AND IN
ALL OF THE WARRANTS THE EXACT
SAME LANGUAGE WAS USED.
THE USE OF THE EXACT SAME
LANGUAGE SHOWS THAT THE
CONSTITUTIONAL STANDARDS WEREN’T
REALLY BEING FOLLOWED.
TO USE A WARRANT YOU HAVE TO BE
ABLE TO ATTEST THAT THERE ARE
EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES THAT
REQUIRE YOU TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE
TO GO IN WITHOUT A KNOCK.
SOME EVIDENCE THAT THE PEOPLE
THERE MIGHT BE ABLE TO ESCAPE OR
MIGHT GET RID OF WHATEVER THE
THING IS, USUALLY DRUGS, AND THE
FACT THAT EACH WARRANT SAID THE
SAME THING AND MUCH OF THE
INFORMATION WAS A LIE SHOWS THAT
THE EXISTING CONSTITUTIONAL
STANDARD -- WHICH IS VERY, VERY
MINOR -- WASN’T EVEN FOLLOWED IN
THOSE CASES.
THE REALITY IS THAT THERE’S NO
DISINCENTIVES FOR USING NO KNOCK
WARRANTS AND NO DISINCENTIVES
FOR LYING ABOUT IT BECAUSE THE
POLICE CAN STILL USE WHATEVER
EVIDENCE THEY FUNDIND.
THE EXCLUSIONARY RULE DOES NOT
APPLY TO NO KNOCK WARRANTS.
WE’RE IN A SITUATION WHERE ALL
OF THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE
BODY CAMS, THAT’S JUST, YOU
KNOW, ICING ON A PRETTY ROTTEN
CAKE.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE
CONSTITUTIONAL RULES PERMIT THIS
KIND OF BEHAVIOR.
>> CAPTAIN PRUITT, I’M TRYING TO
FIGURE OUT BARACK OBAMA
DELIVERED AN ADDRESS THE OTHER
DAY IN WHICH HE TALKED ABOUT THE
FACT THAT THIS IS REALLY FOR
COUNTY EXECUTIVES AND MAYORS AND
PEOPLE LIKE THAT TO WORK WITH
THEIR POLICE FORCES TO FIGURE
OUT USE OF FORCE RULES,
APPROPRIATE RULES.
WE’VE SEEN SOME OF IT
IMPLEMENTED IN MINNEAPOLIS.
WE’VE SEEN AN ARREST IN
PHILADELPHIA.
WE’VE SEEN SOME SUSPENSIONS IN
NEW YORK CITY AND IN BUFFALO.
IS IT POLICY OR IS IT CULTURE OR
BOTH?
>> SO THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
I THINK IT’S POLICY, AND I ALSO
THINK THAT IT’S CULTURE.
LISTEN, POLICE AND CULTURE IS
REALLY, REALLY, REALLY DEEPLY
ENTRENCHED SO YOU’RE GOING TO
HAVE TO APPROACH THAT IN A
SEVERAL PRONGED WAY.
POLICY AND TRAINING ARE GREAT,
BUT THEY’RE ONLY AS GOOD AS THE
OFFICER WHO YOU ARE TRAINING OR
WHO’S THINKING THAT THE POLICY
PROBABLY SUCKS AND HE’S NOT
GOING TO FOLLOW IT ANYWAY.
SO WE HAVE TO DO SOME THINGS
THAT WILL FORCE THE ISSUE.
SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I’M
TALKING ABOUT WITH MY POLICE
PEERS IS A NATIONAL DATABASE SO
THAT WE CAN FOLLOW OFFICERS WHO
HAVE BEEN VIOLATING THEIR ORDERS
AND VIOLATING THE LAW.
WE NEED TO KNOW THAT THEY’RE OUT
THERE, AND THEN THEY CANNOT BE
HIRED BY ANOTHER POLICE
DEPARTMENT.
THERE SHOULD BE UNIFORM USE OF
FORCE STANDARDS ALL ACROSS THE
COUNTRY BECAUSE RIGHT NOW DOING
A PIECEMEAL USE OF FORCE THING
IS CAUSING MANY OF THESE
PROBLEMS, AND THIRDLY, WE’RE
GOING TO HAVE TO ATTACK THE
SYSTEMIC ISSUES THAT EXIST IN
POLICE DEPARTMENTS AND MANY OF
THOSE ISSUES ARE BASED ON RACE.
WE DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT.
PEOPLE ARE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH
IT, BUT IT IS A REALITY, AND IF
WE DO NOT ADDRESS IT, WE CANNOT
SOLVE THE PROBLEMS.
>> JACOB WARD, ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT YOU’VE STUDIED FOR A LONG
TIME IS THE FACT THAT IF THERE
ARE IMPLICIT BIASES, WE ALL HAVE
THEM, EXCEPT COPS HAVE GUNS, IT
CAN BE CHANGED.
THOSE BIASES CAN BE CHANGED, BUT
THAT TAKES TIME.
THAT TAKES COMMITMENT, AND THAT
TAKES MONEY.
>> THAT’S RIGHT, AND ALI, I
WOULD ALSO ARGUE IT ALSO TAKES A
NATIONAL INSIGHT.
WHAT CAPTAIN PRUITT IS SPEAKING
ABOUT IN TERMS OF A NATIONAL
DATABASE IS WHAT EXPERTS ARE
TELLING ME IS ONE OF THE MOST
IMPORTANT FIRST STEPS.
THE THING THAT AMERICANS
PROBABLY JUST DON’T REALIZE IS
THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
IS NOT SOME OVERARCHING
CONTROLLING SYSTEM THAT SETS
NATIONAL STANDARDS FOR POLICE
DEPARTMENTS.
ANY TWO POLICE DEPARTMENTS COULD
BE SO DIFFERENT IN THIS COUNTRY
BECAUSE OUR POLICING IS OF
COURSE, FED RATED.
IT’S CONTROLLED BY STATES AND
MUNICIPALITIES.
THERE’S NO REGULATION.
THERE’S NO REASON THAT ANY WHOA
POLICE DEPARTMENTS COULD
RESEMBLE EACH OTHER IN POLICY OR
PROCEDURE UNLESS, YOU KNOW, THE
TWO CHIEFS OF POLICE HAPPEN TO
HAVE GONE TO THE SAME
CONVENTION.
ONLY REALLY THE CONSTITUTION IS
THE SORT OF COMMON THREAD THAT
CONNECTS THEM.
SO WE DON’T HAVE GOOD NATIONAL
POLICIES ON ALMOST ANYTHING.
AN IMPLICIT BIAS IS CERTAINLY
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN,
YOU KNOW, THE SCIENCE IS THERE.
AS YOU MENTIONED, IT IS IN
EVERYONE, OUR BRAINS ARE
SHORTCUT MACHINES.
THEY TEND TO LOOK AT OUTSIDERS A
CERTAIN WAY.
IT IS THE WAY THAT BEHAVIORAL
SCIENTISTS UNDERSTAND OUR BRAINS
TO WORK.
NOW WHAT WE NEED TO COME UP WITH
NATIONAL STANDARDS THAT TAKE
THAT INTO ACCOUNT, THAT TAKE
THIS INCREDIBLE LACK OF NATIONAL
DATA INTO ACCOUNT, AND TAKES ALL
OF IT AND CREATES SOME SORT OF
PROGRAM THAT CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE
OF THE LATEST SCIENCE AROUND
THIS STUFF, ALI.
>> AND WE ARE WATCHING PROTESTS
AROUND THE WORLD.
YOU ARE SEEING A GATHERING --
I’M NOT SURE WHAT WE’RE LOOKING
AT HERE IN PHILADELPHIA.
THERE’S A GATHERING OF PEOPLE.
IT DOESN’T LOOK LIKE A PROTEST
TO ME.
IT LOOKS LIKE A BIG LINEUP OF
PEOPLE.
WE’RE GOING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT
THAT IS WE’RE LOOKING AT.
THERE ARE PROTESTS GOING ON
ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
KIMBERLY CRENSHAW, THE POLICE IN
THIS COUNTRY NEED TO SORT OF
RECALIBRATE THEIR VIEW OF
AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN AS
REQUIRING REMARKABLE VIOLENCE TO
BE PUT DOWN, APPREHENDED,
ARRESTED OR WHATEVER IS DONE.
ONE THING WE DON’T DISCUSS
ENOUGH OF BUT YOU DISCUSS A LOT
IS AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN WHO
FACE VIOLENCE AT THE HANDS OF
POLICE.
>> ABSOLUTELY, AND IT’S ONE OF
THE REASONS WHY MY ORGANIZATION
BEGAN THE SAY HER NAME CAMPAIGN
LITERALLY TO BROADEN THE
FRAMEWORK SO WE UNDERSTAND THAT
WE NOT ONLY HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT
THE MIKE BROWNS AND THE ERIC
GARNERS, BUT WE HAVE TO WORRY
ABOUT THE TA SHENISHA ANDERSONS.
WHEN WE BROADEN THE FRAMEWORK
THAT BLACK WOMEN ARE OFTEN ALSO
KILLED BY POLICE, JUST YESTERDAY
WE RELEASE ADD TIMEED A TIME LIN
SHOWED SOME OF THE BLACK WOMEN
THAT WERE KILLED BETWEEN THE
TIME OF MIKE BROWN AND GEORGE
FLOYD, THAT PEOPLE JUST DON’T
KNOW ABOUT.
THEY JUST REALLY DON’T KNOW THAT
BLACK WOMEN ARE ALSO KILLED BY
THE POLICE.
IF YOU BROADEN THE FRAMEWORK,
YOU SEE THERE ARE OTHER
CIRCUMSTANCES WE HAVE TO REALLY
PAY ATTENTION TO.
ONE IS THAT POLICE ARE OFTEN THE
FIRST RESPONDERS IN MENTAL
HEALTH CRISES.
THEY ARE THE LAST ONES TO BE
ABLE TO RESPOND EFFECTIVELY TO
MENTAL HEALTH CRISES BECAUSE TO
A POLICE OFFICER, EVERY PERSON
WHO ISN’T FOLLOWING THEIR
COMMANDS OR DOESN’T WANT TO GET
IN THE POLICE CAR, REGARDLESS OF
WHETHER THEY’VE COMMITTED ANY
CRIME AND MOST OF THEM HAVE NOT,
LOOK LIKE THE SAME KIND OF
PROBLEM FOR WHICH EXCESSIVE
FORCE IS USED, SO TANISHA
ANDERSON KILLED WITHIN TWO WEEKS
OF TAMIR RICE.
NO CRIMES, JUST A MENTAL HEALTH
CRISES, AND THEY DID THE SAME
KIND OF ACTION ON HER THAT THEY
DID ON GEORGE FLOYD.
WE DON’T KNOW ABOUT IT, AND
BECAUSE WE DON’T KNOW ABOUT IT,
WE CAN’T SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?
WE NEED ANOTHER RESPONSE TO
MENTAL HEALTH CRISES.
FORTUNATELY, FRAN GARRETT, WHO
IS MICHELLE CUE SEW’S MOTHER WAS
ABLE TO PUSH THROUGH A KIND OF
REFORM BY INSISTING THAT
SOMEONE’S GOING TO KNOW WHAT
HAPPENED TO HER DAUGHTER.
THE ONLY WAY WE KNEW ABOUT IT IS
THAT SHE INSISTED ON TAKING HER
DAUGHTER’S CASKET TO CITY HALL.
THAT, FRANKLY, IS HOW SAY HER
NAME GOT STARTED, AND BROADENING
THAT FRAMEWORK IS GOING TO HELP
US MAKE SURE THAT WOMEN AS WELL
AS MEN ARE ABLE TO HAVE THEIR
STORIES TOLD AND THE REFORMS
THAT ARE IMPLICATED ACTUALLY
INITIATED.
>> THANK YOU FOR CONTINUING TO
PUSH THAT ISSUE.
TAKE A LOOK AT THE STREETS OF
LONDON RIGHT NOW.
THIS IS JUST INCREDIBLE THE
NUMBER OF PEOPLE.
I MEAN, THIS IS NOT EVEN IT,
THAT HELICOPTER SHOT AS YOU SEE
GETS A LOT HIGHER AND THE
STREETS ARE FULL AROUND
PARLIAMENT SQUARE.
CAPTAIN PRUITT, LET ME ASK YOU
ABOUT THIS.
IN THE STREETS I HAVE SEEN SIGNS
THAT SOME OF THEM ARE QUITE
DEROGATORY TO POLICE, SOME SAY
ABOLISH THE POLICE, SOME SAY
DEFUND THE POLICE.
BUT WHAT I HEAR FROM A LOT OF
PEOPLE PROBABLY DOESN’T WORK
WELL ON A SIGN, BUT TO WHAT KIM
IS SAYING IS SOME VERSION OF
LET’S REALLOCATE THE RESOURCES
SO THAT THERE IS ADEQUATE MENTAL
HEALTH CARE, SO THERE IS
ADEQUATE INTERVENTION SO
EVERYTHING ISN’T LOOKED AT AS A
HAMMER AND A NAIL AND MAYBE THAT
WILL RELIEVE SOME OF THE
TENSION.
HOW DO YOU LOOK AT THIS?
BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE CALLING
FOR FUNDING TO POLICE TO STOP.
>> SURE, SO YOU KNOW, I THINK
IT’S PERFECTLY REASONABLE FOR
THE PEOPLE THAT WE PROTECT AND
SERVE TO QUESTION WHAT WE DO
WITH THE MONEY THAT WE GET.
EVERYBODY DOESN’T KNOW WHEN A
POLICE LINE ITEM MIGHT BE.
THERE’S SEVERAL THINGS THAT YOU
COULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR IN A
POLICE DEPARTMENT, BUT WHEN IT
COMES TO TRAINING AND HIRING AND
WHAT TYPES OF THINGS ARE PUTTING
INTO DEESCALATION AND USE OF
POWER, THAT COMES FROM MONEY, SO
YES, I THINK THAT IS PERFECTLY
REASONABLE TO BE QUESTIONING
THAT.
NOT ONLY BUT IF THE PUBLIC WHO
WE WORK FOR ARE NOT HAPPY WITH
WHAT WE’RE DLGOING WITH THE
FUNDING, THEY GET TO SAY MAYBE
WE LOOK AT THIS A DIFFERENT WAY.
IN MINNEAPOLIS THEY’RE TAKING A
LOOK AT THE STRUCTURE OF THEIR
POLICE DEPARTMENTS, AND IN L.A.,
THEY ARE DEFUNDING THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD
EXPECT.
THE PEOPLE ARE FOR US, AND WE
ARE FOR THE PEOPLE.
IF WE DO NOT WORK HAND IN HAND,
NONE OF THIS IS GOING TO WORK.
>> WELL, JUST THAT ATTITUDE
COULD GET US SOMEWHERE ACTUALLY.
IN LOS ANGELES THERE WAS
SUPPOSED TO BE A 7% BUDGET
INCREASE FOR THE POLICE THAT WAS
GOING TO GO INTO EFFECT.
THAT HAS BEEN CANCELED.
THANK YOU TO THE THREE OF YOU.
THIS IS IS A CONVERSATION THAT
WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE MANY
TIMES OVER, AND YOU’VE ALL DONE
SO MANY UP WORK IN HELPING US
UNDERSTAND IT, CAPTAIN SONIA
PRUITT, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE
NATIONAL BACK POLICE
ASSOCIATION, KIMBERLY CRENSHAW,