(gentle music)
- I'm Carolyn Giardina.
Welcome to The Hollywood Reporter's Animation Short Cuts.
I'm here with Josh Cooley,
who is the director of "Toy Story 4,"
and Jennifer Lee, who is the writer
and one of the directors of "Frozen II," welcome.
- [Both] Thank you.
- What character do each of you
most identify with in your film?
- I identify with Elsa. (both laugh)
I identify with Forky.
He's he newest toy to the "Toy Story" world
that is a handmade toy made out of a spork.
And so he doesn't understand kind of what's going on
(laughs) or why he's there.
And there was a time early on in the film
when I was like, what is happening?
I'm trying to navigate this all
as, you know, first-time director.
And so I was pitching this idea to my wife, and she,
this idea of having this spork character who doesn't get it,
and she said, "Oh, that's you, yeah, you're like that."
(laughs) And so I was like, "No, you don't, no, no."
But that's totally me.
- And which character would you like to be more like?
- That's a, wow, that's a, I hadn't thought about that one.
(Carolyn laughs) I'd probably like to be
more like Woody, just in the sense of that
he's so driven to do the right thing, no matter what.
That makes me sound like a horrible person,
like, I'm not like that.
I admire that in him. - I think
you're pretty driven. (laughs) (Josh laughs)
- And Jen?
- So I definitely identify with Anna, it's always been Anna.
I think she's, feels everything too strongly.
She acts before she thinks, like me,
but cares very deeply and doesn't give up,
and doesn't give up on people, whether that's good or bad.
And so she's kind of my emotional rock.
She's not the most graceful,
but her intention is pure and strong, and I admire that.
But the quirky way she talks and things,
I relate to very much.
So she's, I think, I've always said she's the anchor
for the first film and the second film.
She's the most grounded character.
- And which character would you like to be more like?
- There's no question, Elsa.
I think, I mean, Elsa's her big sister.
I look up to my big sister,
and I think there's always that way, you know,
Anna looks up to Elsa like everything Elsa does incredible,
and I do that same thing, and I'm, you know,
so proud of her, the way you are with like a family member.
So, but she's got magical powers. (laughs)
- Now, you have some new cast members.
Tell us about Sterling K. Brown as Lieutenant Mattias.
- We were developing this character of this soldier
who was anchored in the past and the present,
had been around, had grit, had understanding,
gravitas, but also warmth.
And what we do often is we'll hear certain,
I say hear 'cause we'll listen to their voices,
not actually look at them,
certain actors and actresses who just,
they have all these layers,
and I was just madly in love with Sterling's voice,
and all the diversity of characters he played,
you knew that you were gonna have
a lot of fun playing with him,
and you were gonna get a really rich character.
So we were so, we asked him to come in really early
when Mattias was an idea, and he said, "Heck, yeah."
And we, he came in, it's about over the course of two years,
and would brainstorm with us, develop with us.
And he got me to improv with him,
which is, 'cause he's so good, he gets you,
and I was like, the most embarrassing moments of my life,
(Josh laughs) and he handled it
gracefully, kindly,
so just getting to work with him was just a dream.
- And you had some good characters in your film as well.
- Yes. - Tell us about how
you created Duke Caboom with Keanu Reeves.
- Duke Caboom, (laughs) one of the joys of "Toy Story"
is always seeing what these new toys are,
the new characters that come into the world.
And so we had an idea for a '70s stuntman
that's built just to sit on the bike,
so he's mostly on the motorcycle.
And so we looked at just Canadian actors
and blind cast, you know, we didn't know who it was,
and I heard that voice and I went,
"Hold on, that's something, there's something there."
And it ended up being Keanu.
And we thought, well, he'll never say yes to this.
And so we thought, well, you know,
what's the harm in asking?
And he said, "Well, let me come up and meet you guys."
And he came to the studio,
and we just kind of walked him around and had lunch.
And we were uncovering the story
just as we were talking about it, uncovering the character,
and to the point where he started posing and going,
"Hoo, hah, hoo," like while he was sitting there (laughs)
and stood up on the table and went, "I'm Duke Caboom,"
and was creating a scene.
It was just, it was something,
it wasn't just the bigness of the character,
he actually brought an emotion to it
that I did not anticipate, and which was such a joy to hear
and then to animate, it was really great.
- I instantly connected to Duke Caboom
and, you know, I felt like his physicality was important,
so I wanted him to like,
even when he's talking to you, he's doing stunts, you know,
he can't help himself. (Duke whooshing)
- Now, you also, in this one, further developed
a very independent Bo Peep. - Yeah.
- Would you tell us about that?
- Bo Peep was always the beginning of this movie.
It was, our code name for the movie was Peep, internally.
So it was always, she was always a part of it.
She would always come into Woody's life somehow.
And when we realized we can have her embody
the thing that Woody's been afraid of for three movies,
she's now a lost toy, he's been afraid of that forever,
she becomes such an important character in his development.
And so the great thing was we went back
and looked at Bo Peep in the other two movies.
She's only in "Toy Story 1" and "2,"
and it's only about six minutes of screen time,
it's not that much at all.
We cut just that together, and we noticed that Bo Peep
was actually a really strong character from the get-go.
Whenever Woody is confused or frustrated with,
'cause Buzz shows up or whatever,
he would go to her and say, you know,
"(grumbles) I don't know what's going on,"
and she would say, "Look under your boot.
"Look whose name is there,"
and she would kind of set him right back on track.
So it was, we just kind of expanded
on what was already there.
We took this character that was already kind of
in the background, definitely, almost a tertiary character,
said we're gonna take her out of her comfort zone,
and she's lived this whole other life, and now she's back,
and what would that look like?
And that's what we put on the screen.
- And now, Elsa has become an icon in the LGBTQ community.
Would you tell us about that response
and your responsibility?
- Yeah, I mean, it means a lot to me
and to us as filmmakers that she has.
I love that through her being different
and this beauty that she has inside of her
that she's able to unleash, and "Frozen" was inspiring.
And, you know, we talk a lot about it
in "Frozen I" versus "Frozen II,"
she's wrestling with her powers
and she doesn't have a romantic interest,
so that's kind of, we were never going there
'cause it's not her journey, it's not where she is.
She's trying to wrestle with her powers,
carry the weight of a kingdom
on her shoulders at that moment,
but loving the power and strength of her in this moment
and her individuality as she sort of
accepts and strengthens who she is.
And so that's kind of where we knew
our journey was going for "Frozen II."
(waves crashing)
(slow dramatic music)
(Elsa breathes deeply)
(ice cracking)
(Elsa screams)
I read Twitter and I, it means a lot.
I don't know that we ever knew
what Elsa would mean to people.
I think we were building this woman who was struggling
with who she was and not being the villainous character,
that of the original book, of the Snow Queen,
that she was sympathetic and emotional and had depth.
But she doesn't have a lot of screen time in "Frozen I"
compared to Anna, like you were saying,
and so that the world's embraced her the way they have,
it means a lot, it's overwhelming, yeah.
- Now, from the characters to the filmmakers,
what are you seeing as far as more diversity and inclusion
in the animation world?
- We made a real effort
to really make our background characters diverse.
We knew we were gonna have this huge carnival scene,
tons of people in the background,
playing games, doing all sorts of stuff.
There's so many different types of people
of all shapes, sizes, colors, everything.
And it's really fascinating, the response I've seen online,
of people going, like, "Look at that."
They've actually done a freeze frame,
and they'll circle people and go like, "That looks like me."
One of the kids in Bonnie's kindergarten
has a cochlear implant, and the response from that,
just the fact that we,
it's not a story point, but it's just there,
and people were like moved to tears to see that,
because they're responding to it, so it's been really great.
- I think one of the things I kept hearing more and more
in the studio, from particularly women in the studio, is,
I was one of the first women in creative leadership
in the rooms with them, so they began to be more vocal,
and that discovery of realizing that
as we look for diversity and balance behind the scenes,
not just, people of color as well, not just gender,
the having leaders who can inspire you
to speak up and contribute because they reflect you a bit.
And so we've made a real concerted effort
in terms of the talent is all there,
let that talent come forward and lead.
And it's had a huge impact on the studio
and in the best way,
and our rooms are so much more balanced, and the filmmakers,
it represents the world a lot better, I think.
But everyone, you just, people have the want,
and so you just look together
and communicate in different ways on how.
And it's just been very positive for the whole studio, so.
- All right, great.
So to change subjects, Jon Favreau's "The Lion King"
has sparked a lot of discussion
about what is an animated movie.
Do you consider it an animated movie?
And what are your thoughts on that film?
(both laugh)
- I don't, yeah. - I actually haven't,
I haven't seen it yet,
actually. - Oh, yeah. (laughs)
- I was a little busy. (laughs)
I remember hearing Favreau say
that his intent was that it's live action,
like he's going for that, for the look of live action.
And the animals do move, even though they are animated,
'cause you can't put mocap tennis balls
on a, ping pong balls on a lion.
- You can do it once. - Yeah, you don't wanna--
- You're not gonna-- - You're not gonna get very--
- You're not gonna
survive that. (laughs) - Not a very long movie
out of that.
I think the intent is to make it look realistic.
So it's an interesting question.
I don't know if I have a full answer for it.
I know you-- - Yeah, oh, you know,
I feel strongly about it being not an animated film,
in my opinion, using similar technologies,
and for Jon, knowing for him it was visual effects
driven towards realism, having a lot of fun
with something you could never do before
to imagine ourselves really in that world.
And to me, there's just a different goal
from what animation, animation has never tried to be real.
Even with CG, which can create a sense
of like, wow, that water, or something,
it's really part of layers of the artistry
of the entire piece of imagination that is an animated film,
that nothing is striving for realism
but just striving for this believability,
transcendence of regular life, (laughs)
so the opposite goal.
So I feel like the two can exist together,
that there are blurred lines
in terms of the technology, of course.
But I do think it comes back to, are you trying
to transport us to something other and beyond?
Or are you trying to create
this realistic world like our world?
And so it always feels easy for me.
But, you know, when you have to have a meeting
just to decide what the phlegm is like in a jar of lutefisk
that goes in, that has to be built for the animated film
and match the style of everything,
you know it's like they don't go together. (laughs)
They're just, one is designed, you know, from nothing, so.
- So you view it as intent versus technique?
- I think it's intent, that's better said,
yeah, intent versus technique.
- So what animated film most inspired
each of you to get into the business?
- Oh wow.
- I have mine only because it was the first,
my first sway into animation,
and then it was my, it was Cinderella, and she was my rock.
Growing up, she was, I was obsessed
with my little picture book from the film.
I didn't see the film till I was probably eight,
but I had the book,
and her perseverance, I was bullied severely, so was she,
and how she got through that, that the very Disney way
of through adversity, stay true to yourself,
and when it's hard, believe in yourself,
and the beauty of that.
So for me it was, I always knew.
I didn't have the drawing skills
of the extraordinary people I've got to sit with today.
But I would, as a child, draw my stories
and then write my stories.
And they were all geared very much
in that fairy tale world of suffer and it's okay,
you will find your way through. (laughs)
- I loved watching, I kind of, too,
"Peter Pan" was the first one
because I was, I don't ever wanna grow up,
I think that's the reason why.
And then when I saw "Who Framed Roger Rabbit,"
that was the film that made me go
from loving movies and animation
to wanting to go work in movies and animation,
just the idea that film,
basically Chinatown with cartoon characters,
it just hit me perfectly.
- Well, thank you so much, both of you, for joining us.
And congratulations on your films.
- [Both] Thank you.