A win in Georgia expands
Democrats' senate majority, but
the party loses a member in
Arizona.
And the U.S.
Trades the world's most
notorious arms dealer for a
wrongly-detained basketball
superstar.
For analysis of this week's
news, brooks and Capehart.
That's New York Times columnist
David brooks and Jonathan
Capehart -- David brooks with
the New York Times.
[Laughter]
And Jonathan Capehart, associate
editor for the Washington post.
We want to make sure we get your
titles right.
David: I thought I had been
fired there for a minute.
[Laughter]
Judy: A lot of news we want to
try to tackle.
David, let's start with Kyrsten
Sinema.
Some say it is not entirely a
surprise, but she has now left
the democratic party.
She will be an independent.
She says she will not caucus
with Republicans, but what does
this mean for the dynamic in the
senate?
David: I don't think it means
that much.
She had been independent all
along.
She was sometimes a vote and
sometimes not a vote.
She will still get her committee
assignments.
I think it will be pretty much
the same.
As Lisa mentioned earlier in the
program, it affects 2024 for her
race back home.
It is sort of a bold move.
If you want one calculation, it
could be this.
That she thought she had
no chance against Ruben Gallego,
so she goes, to the national
Democrats party to say I will
run independent, split the
democratic vote, and you will
get your Republican senator, so
you have to do for me what you
did in Maine and with Bernie
Sanders.
Don't run against me.
It is basically holding the
party hostage.
But if there's anyone who can do
it, it is her.
[Laughter]
Jonathan: Holding the party
hostage again.
Judy: A little bit of that
earlier.
Jonathan: I read it the same way
David does.
Since we are quoting people from
the first block talking about
Sinema, I will quote Stephanie
sy who said a senator Sinema
broke up with the democratic
party before it broke up
with her.
It reminded me of Missy
Elliot.
I broke up with him before he
broke up with me.
But as David said, she still has
her committee assignments.
She said, I will still vote for
lyrical apartments and judges
and ambassadors, so nothing
changes.
David: This is a country with a
rising group of independents.
You're beginning to see that in
the senate.
Lisa murkowski is kind of
independent.
I think it reflects something
deeper in the country, that
there are a lot of people who
are sick of both parties and
this rhetoric she has appeals to
this group.
Not a huge group in our zona,
apparently, -- in Arizona,
apparently, but it appeals to
them.
6 Jonathan: That is what she
said and it is part of her
statement, but I am not going to
give her all of that credit that
she is doing this because she is
representing this bigger part of
the country.
I do buy the argument that
senator cinemas actions today
were more about her and her
political future and the ability
to hold that seat than it did
this overall thinking that there
is a movement out there for
independents and I'm going to
lead them from the great state
of Arizona.
I am not lying that.
-- I am not buying that.
Judy: You're not suggesting
cross politics was it?
[Laughter]
There was an important runoff
election in Georgia.
Rafael Warnock, the Democrat,
hung on by a couple of points to
that seat.
It has now been three days.
What does the result tell you
about Mr. Warnock, rev. Warnock,
about Georgia, and about the
parties right now.
David: Warnock ran a good
campaign.
And Herschel walker ran a
completely terrible campaign.
It is a sign that candidate
quality does still matter.
I am glad for that.
And it is a sign that we never
count double -- Donald Trump
out.
There seems to be a continued
degeneracy.
Not only are candidates doing so
bad in election night, but doing
bad this week.
He has allegedly mounted a
campaign for president without
actually doing anything.
There are no rallies or
anything.
And the wacky doodle comments
and dinners and everything.
I think Republicans are
wondering.
I think it is unlikely he will
get the nomination -- I think it
is likely he will get the
nomination.
I think it is more likely than
not, but less likely than I
thought two weeks ago.
Jonathan: Interesting.
[Laughter]
I want to keep talking about
senator Warnock.
The race was maddeningly close
even on election night, swinging
back and forth.
But I do think Democrats were
reasonably confident he would
eke it out because he didn't
depend on Atlanta to get the
votes.
He traveled all around the state
, to read districts, and give
those voters the courtesy of
asking for their vote, but at
least listen to what I have to
say.
He ran a positive campaign,
especially in the general
election when people were
getting him to talk about the
travails of Herschel walker.
He spent all of his time talking
about, here is how I worked with
senators on the other site to
compromise, to do things for
Georgians.
He wasn't afraid to do all of
that while standing firmly on D
Democrat values, not running
away from the fact that he is a
Democrat.
And asking people, give me your
vote, give me a full term, and
look at what I will be able to
do.
On the side of Herschel walker,
it was a cynical ploy by
Republicans to put up a black
man to run against a black man
who was woefully unqualified to
be a member of the senate,
thinking all they had to do was
put up another black man and
that would be enough to siphon
off enough African-American
votes to help them get over the
top.
What we saw in the runoff is
that didn't pay off.
In fact, they insulted a lot of
people.
Judy: On Herschel walker, I
noticed in his concession
speech, he seemed to be
separating himself from Donald
Trump, interestingly.
He made the comment that we
should uphold the constitution,
we should respect elected
officials.
Did you make anything of that?
David: Things are bad for
trump if Herschel walker is
separating.
[Laughter]
He can do that now maybe as
reputation repair.
But you think of the abortion
scandals, the children, the
weird things he said about
vampires and werewolves or
whatever, it was a campaign like
no other and it was cynical to
put somebody up.
It is not a secret who Herschel
walker is.
It was cynical for them to put
him up.
Jonathan: I would add P did
something else that Donald Trump
has never done.
He took responsibility.
He said we ran a race and we
came up short, and that's on me.
That was breathtaking.
Judy: And he said respect to the
results.
Jonathan: Right.
Judy: Another major development
this week was the return of
Brittney Griner.
Superstar, women's wnba
superstar.
She had been held for most of
this year in Russia, traded for
a notorious arms dealer, Victor
bout.
You've heard the explanation
that it was either this or
nothing.
What do you make of the decision
to do this, the optics of it,
the reality of it?
David: I don't think anybody
feels great about it.
Her crime was a few ounces of
marijuana and his crime was arms
dealing to people who kill
Americans and others.
So it is. Not an equal case but
I
think there is a fundamental
role that if somebody has an
American passport, you bring
them home.
You don't like it because
dealing with Vladimir Putin is
never a pleasure.
Somebody said he punches you in
the nose and asks you to
negotiate.
I think the Biden administration
did the right thing, which is to
get an American citizen home.I
wish they had gotten Paul Whelan
home
.
My paper has a new story on how
complicated that arrangement
was.
The Russians wanted someone, an
assassin, who was in German's
hands.
The Americans tried to get him,
and the Germans said, we are not
going to give them back an
assassin.
There was complicated
negotiations.
The justice department didn't
want to do it, the white house
wanted to do it.
This is super complicated.
To have an American back is
better than nothing.
Jonathan: I agree with David,
but just to correct a little
bit, it wasn't marijuana, it was
cannabis oil in a vape pen.
It is a big difference.
But it is great she is home.
Imagine how the American people
would have felt if they found
out that the administration had
an opportunity to bring an
American home and they didn't
take that chance.
It would be a whole different
conversation tonight.
Judy: A lot of conversation,
speaking of that, about whether
-- the fact that she is black,
she is a woman.
Did that have an effect?
Jonathan: And lesbian in Russia,
where they are debating lgbtq
lives in that country.
As someone who is black and an
out gay man, I fear for her on
top of just as an American
citizen being behind bars in a
totalitarian state.
Absolutely.
Judy: What does it say -- I hear
what you say about we learn if
the government had not taken
advantage of this.
But does it send a signal that
the U.S. Will accept the worst
kind of trade to get its
citizens?
David: The thing you worry about
in these cases, it happens all
the time in the Middle East,
when terrorists take hostages.
Does it reward kidnapping,
hostage taking?
There is some moral hazard
there, probably.
My argument would be Vladimir
Putin is not waffling on whether
to be a bad guy.
[Laughter]
He is going to do what he is
going to do.
Us making this deal is not to
encourage him to do more brutal
stuff.
He will do more brutal stuff.
At least we got a human being
home.
I do accept the moral hazard.
I do accept whether the justice
department doesn't like this.
It doesn't exactly serve because
of justice.
But sometimes people are more
important.
Jonathan: And we should also not
forget the statement put out by
Paul Whelan's family, which I
thought was incredibly gracious
in celebrating Brittney Griner's
return, but also talking about
the fact they appreciate the
administration doing everything
it can to bring Paul home.
I was waiting to hear with the
family was going to say and how
they said it.
I was relieved because these are
very emotional, tense things.
You want your loved one to come
home.
And to find out they were
possibly this close to getting
them home and that didn't
happen, I would have understood
if they had put out an
incendiary statement against the
president, yet they didn't.
Judy: The administration says
they are continuing to work hard
on winning his release.
But he has been there since
2018.
David: We do hope the people who
got Brittney Griner out will
continue to work to get Paul
Whelan.
Judy: David brooks, Jonathan
Capehart, thank you both.