Well, you're going to be liking today's
program a lot, because I'm speaking with Tim Lee,
who is a naturalist with the
Parks, Recreation, and Tourism department in
the upstate, and we're going to talk about
lichens and mosses. They seem so similar
sometimes. But they're, and they are similar
some but they're also pretty different. And
you came and spent the night in Sumter last
night, so we could get started early, and you
took a walk down the street, you could have
gotten almost everything you needed
just wandering around downtown.
Tim>> Right, almost everything that you see
on the table right now, they are examples of
right on Main Street. There were we'll talk
about this in a bit. but they are lichens
that are called crustose lichens, which
are literally crusty if you would, and they
were growing on the bark of the trees.
We had some foliose lichens, big bushy
ones, if you would. Moss is growing
between the bricks on the sidewalk and
growing on the sides of some of the old structures,
but interestingly enough,
even some of the new building structures
had mosses growing on them as well.
Amanda>> It's crazy, and one thing that I really
love about this is that they are such diversity
in where we found them, and some of
them I mean, like I think of mosses as
being in real, you know, on the north sides of
trees and things like that, but some of the
lichens and mosses grow in the same areas and
some grow in very diverse areas.
Often you find them together though.
Tim>> Yeah, absolutely. Well, what we have in front
of us right here on the right is one that
people commonly know is reindeer moss. It's
actually a lichen, and just beside it is
pin cushion moss. So this is a moss and this
is a lichen, but they were growing right
beside each other on very sandy soil,
And just at first glance, you might think they're
the same thing, same sort of organism.
One of the great things about both of these is
they can grow in very harsh conditions.
They're called extremophiles like
extreme conditions that can be very dry,
and in some cases, even very warm. In this case,
this the lichen and in this case on this moss,
both of these, which is true of all lichens and
mosses, they don't...have a root system,
which is different from a lot of
plants that we think of when without a root
system. You don't need to put your feet down
in the soil so to speak. You're getting
your water and your nutrients from the
air around you. So, in this case, very extreme
conditions, very dry, very warm conditions,
but you got to both a lichen and a moss
growing be side each other.
Amanda>> Well, let's start with lichens
because so many people call the extension office
and they say, lichens are killing my plants,
and what we generally say our
statement is well lichens, are completely
self sufficient. They don't take any
nutrients from your plants. They just want
a way to be in the atmosphere to get up in
the sunlight, and occasionally, they'll
grow on plants that aren't growing very
quickly if a plant is slowed down a lot,
but also, sometimes some plants just have a
great surface for lichens to grow on.
So, how does a lichen make its business?
(laughter)
Tim>> Well, lichens are really like an ecosystem.
It's everything kind of all packaged
in there together. So you have a
mycobiont , which means it's a fungus, and you
have a photobiont. So, it's the one that
photosynthesizes, and that could be either an
algae or an alga. It could be a
cyanobacteria, which is a blue green alga, if
you would, and that's the one that actually
makes the food if you will, and then it
provides the food. The lichen, or the fungal
component actually provides the structure,
>>Aha, >> Okay. Now, both of those,
both the algal and the fungus, in some cases,
is a sign of it. They could live on their own,
but there are places that they can live,
that they would not be able to
by living together in playing different roles.
So, in other words, the algae in here
would not be able to survive in those dry conditions
without that fungus helping to capture
that moisture to help keep it wet.
Amanda>> Okay, and then the moss, although it
looks like this is a great big thing.
that's all one plant. It doesn't have a vascular
system. It doesn't have any roots, and so it
has to...these are really tiny little things,
and they have to...move nutrients and water,
just by almost osmosis. Tim>> Right. Exactly.
>> As if we were kind of holding hands.
>> Yes. >> And I was...this part of my hand was,
and then your...I'm passing nutrients and water on
to the next door neighbor
>> to the next door neighbor. Exactly.
This is hundreds of individual plants
inside of here. So you want to think of this
going into a small scale like a little
forest, but hundreds of individual moss plants
that look like little trees. That particular
growth form is called an acrocarp, and those
are the ones that sort of stand up. By the fact
that they're all grouped close together,
the moisture that's available within there
allows them to be able to move that water
easily across the leaf. It's not really a leaf
though, Amanda. It's a leaf like structure.
It's only one cell thick, which
is also why it's able to be able to bring
that water in versus having to go through
multiple layers. It's just keeping that one
cell, or that one layer of cells with the
moisture content and any other nutrients
that are coming in via the atmosphere.
Amanda>> Did lichens come first, probably?
Tim>> That's a good question. Most of the
research indicates that mosses have been around
for a little over 400 million years. Okay. Now if you
go back and you take the algal component,
the photobiont, algae's been around much longer.
So if you take one component of that,
yes, the algal had been around way longer than
than the moss has. Of course, the Moss is a
true plant. Even though it doesn't have a vascular
system, so we call it a non vascular plant.
Whereas the lichen itself, we group them
or classify them as fungi, but there are
many, many different things all in that in
that component, one unit. It's like a whole
ecosystem in there.
Amanda>> ...Then they have different ways of
reproducing. Yes, completely.
Tim>> The moss is going to produce a spore,
and when that spore comes out of a little capsule,
and you can see some of the capsules,
right over there. Yeah, there you go.
Little round structures like little balls.
Those little capsules contain the spores
Amanda>> The male and female gametes.
Tim>> Everything's all packaged together.
Yes. Think of it almost like a seed.
Amanda>> Oh. >> Okay. Not exactly,
but almost like a seed
that's going to go. It's going to land
and when it lands,
it's not going to grow into something
that looks like a moss. It's going to look more like
an algal mat, a green algal mat.
Within there is when your actual gametes are
going to form. So, we call it the gametophyte.
The phyte is plant gamete, the plant
that has the gamete. Amanda>>It's complicated.
Tim>> It's kind of complicated.
So, it's two steps to get to that.
Amanda>> But the one thing is that they must
have water to move those gametes so that
they can get together, I believe. >> Exactly
>> Kind of like sperm.
Tim>> Yeah, exactly. Mosses are sometimes
known as the amphibians of the plant world.
While they can live on land, they have
to have that water for sexual reproduction
to take place. Lichen is a little different.
Within lichens you have reproduction taking
place both asexually, which means a piece of
this could break off. and if it has all the
components, the mycobiont, the photobiont,
then you can have a whole new plant growing.
Amanda>> I think you found this that had
broken off a rock, and it was on the ground,
and so here we have, ...it's okay, now.
It's a whole nother blanket.
Tim>> Yeah and it's now in a whole different location.
Yeah, exactly. Amanda>> Down here in Sumter.
Tim>> Yeah, and what you see on the lichen,
the reproductive component,
you see most easily is going to be
that like on this plant right here, you
can see there's a little cup if you would, right, there
Amanda>> I sure can. >> That's the
reproductive structure of the fungus itself,
and that's going to contain sometimes,
but not always, kind of like a spore. That's,
but it's got everything all together,
And by that, I mean, it has the genetic material to
grow the fungus, the algal, and in some
cases, they even have yeast growing within them
as well. So, that lands in the right conditions.
Amanda>> Bingo! Tim>> Bingo! You got
a new plant.
Amanda>> ...It's just stunning that they've
come together, they benefit each other.
They, the alga certainly couldn't live
without this under some of the harsh
conditions. What a - I mean, they grow on tombstones.
Tim>> That's right. They do. They do.
They grow on tombstones,
Amanda>> and but they also grow on trees,
and limbs, and rocks, and just an incredible
variety of places.
Tim>> Anywhere you look, almost, you can find a
lichen growing. There's some data out there
that indicates that as much as 7%, as much as
7% of the Earth's surface is covered with
lichens. So, they're growing everywhere, almost.
Amanda>> Then they are indicators, really,
of often clean air. So explain that to us.
Tim>> As we were talking about earlier with the
moss and the lichen, a lot of their moisture,
a lot of their water content,
as well as a lot of the nutrients are coming in
from the air surrounding them.
Amanda>> They don't have any roots.
>> They don't have any roots.
So whatever else might be in that air,
or that water can also be taken up by the plant.
So, the overall health of that plant in
the case of the moss, or the overall health
of the lichen can be indicative of what's
happening in the air around them.
Now, that's not true of all lichens, and there are
some lichens that...I mentioned
they're extremophiles.
So, they will grow in conditions
where the air quality is very low.
While there are other species similar to this one
right here, which looks kind of dried up right
now because...it's been in a envelope
since the 1980s. So, the photobiont in there
is no longer viable.
Amanda>> So, it's herbarium specimen.
Tim>> Herbarium specimen, exactly. The common
name for this is lung lichen, and it's very
sensitive to changes in the air quality.
Amanda>> When I was with you taking a course
recently, I believe we were in - was it
Sassafras Mountain?
Tim>> We were at the base of Sassafras Mountain, yes.
Amanda>> ...went down to a place. I mean it,
just, you could just feel like it was healthy.
and I believe we saw that there. There was
high moisture, but also you'd say that the air
quality there is just fabulous.
Tim>> Exactly, and of course at that point
being Sassafras Mountain, we were right
along the edge of the Blue Ridge escarpment,
and all of that warm moisture coming in from
the Gulf hits those mountains rises and
cools, resulting in over 80 inches, in some
places 100 inches of rain. So, we were in a
temperate rainforest that day.
Amanda>> Well, why don't we go through - you've
got such a wonderful collection and talk
about some of the different mosses and
lichens that you brought.
Tim>> Sure, absolutely. One of the ones I want
to start out with is this one over here.
This came off the streets of Sumter, South Carolina.
Very small, but it's one of the
ones that is very closely related to this
particular one. It's one of the pin cushion,
because they typically grow in a round pattern,
and they're puffed up like a pin cushion
Amanda>> So, this is a moss. Tim>> This is a moss,
and this is a moss. Both pin cushion mosses.
They once again are a collection of hundreds
of individual mosses all growing together.
Kind of like in that little moss forest,
if you would. So, really interesting in there.
Another moss that we have. It's growing very,
very close to the bark. It's growing in a lateral
horizontal fashion as it grows out, and if
you compare it to this one you can see how
it's growing in a long line. It branches many,
many times. So sometimes it's referred
to as carpet moss. Oh, because it lays flat.
Yes. Another common name for it is the fern moss,
because of all the branching, of course. The ferns are
Amanda>> - Ferns so ferny. >> Yeah, so ferny.
They're very feathery. So the fern moss or the
carpet mosses are sometimes referred to as.
Amanda>> Now does this have a lichen growing with it?
Tim>> It does. Side by side. Exactly. There
actually is a lichen here that actually
contains a green algal, but there's a blue green
photobiont over here. So the blue greens
are going to give you that dark color
lichen if you would.
Amanda>> There's another moss about that people
have heard of a lot and perhaps even used, but
not in this form. Tim>> Right.
I mentioned to you earlier, there were
different forms of mosses and we talked
about the one that was standing tall and one
that laid kind of flat down. This is another
group of them. They're known as the Sphagnum
mosses. Sphagnum mosses look to me like an
upside down string mop. I don't know if you know the
book, "The Lorax," like a Truffula tree if you
would, and one of the reasons that this plant
has been used historically in gardening,
is that up to 90% of the cells in
this organism are dead. They just hold water.
So, if you would, the majority of this is water.
You can see it this dripping out
from the middle of my hand on here.
Amanda>> So people like to use that to enrich
their soils, and if we walk to Swan Lake, and
there are certain places on the
far across the street, not in the main part of the
garden, where you can actually see that
growing down near the cypress swamp.
Tim>> Yes, it grows in wetland areas. It will
not survive in dry conditions. Some mosses
will do well in drier conditions, but others
have to almost a saturated in order to
be able to...survive.
>>Well let's move on to the lichens,
because I don't think that's often the case with them.
Tim>> No lichens can dry out,
almost completely... and in that case,
what you will see is you will see
a very light grayish color like this
light green, and then when it gets wet,
it will darken up because that protective layer
on the outside of this particular plant
ois protecting thatn photobiont in there,
and this one is known as usnea, and a lot of
people see this and particularly if you're on
the coast or come to the mountains,
you'd think it's Spanish moss,
but it's not interestingly enough Spanish moss
is named after this,
the species is usneoides. Amanda>> Looks like...
Tim>> looks like usnea, exactly.
This is usnea, and a lot of times people
will see this growing on their trees high up
the fruticose lichens,
the highly branch ones have the ability to capture
more moisture. ...So they are going to grow
higher in your trees, and this is the one
that a lot of people see growing is this usnea.
Or they will see some of the other fruticose
lichens high up and their trees,
and they think there's something wrong
as we talked about earlier.
There's one more thing I'd like to tell you
about the reindeer lichen.
Some people call it reindeer moss.
We don't have reindeer caribou in our area,
but in the areas where they are caribou up to
90% of their diet is this particular lichen
and so without that lichen, the caribou
would not be able to continue to exist.
Very important.
Amanda>> ...I've heard that there's some
concern that since they have to get everything
from the atmosphere, that sometimes this has
a good bit of radioactive material in it.
They're kind of were studying that to see if
it's have any effect on those on those mammals
that use that as their diet.
Tim>> Exactly. Black deer, black tailed deer,
which we don't have either, as well as
caribou, they're looking to see what
the radioactivity levels are within their
within their bodies, so.
Amanda>> Well, this is the kind of thing
I love to go out in my yard and find. I just
think that's just the most beautiful thing
in the world. Tim>> ...This was one
laying on the ground.
You're going to see these high in the trees
once again because of that high branching of
the fruticose that you have, and I mentioned
about the reindeer lichen, but if we move
across the table all the way over there,
that little clump that's seen right there.
Can you point to that to me, Amanda? Come back
a little bit right. There you go, right there.
Yeah, if you look closely at that, you'll
notice there's a little depression in the
middle there.
Amanda>> Oh, there certainly is, and it's soft inside.
Tim>> Yeah, and a little feather. It looks like
a lichen or a moss sitting there.
It's actually a ruby throated hummingbird nest,
and what the hummingbird will do is
gather lichens and put them all on the outside
of the nest to camouflage it,
so when a predator sees it, they think it's just
lichen on the tree.
Amanda>> Yeah, because not many things like to
eat lichen. Tim>> That's correct.
So they're only a food source in this case,
but also are playing an important role
in helping to hide those little birds
as they are developing.
Amanda>> I love textured tree bark, but also
like some of the trees that have real smooth barks,
because they'll just be home to all kinds of lichens,
and I think that's what we have here.
Tim>> That's exactly what you have there.
That's an American Beach, a little small branch off
of that. We had do some pruning on that.
There are seven to nine, depending on who you
ask seven to nine different types of
crustose lichen growing, they're together.
Now they'll grow together,
but they'll bump right up to each other, and they
will sort of put this little line
and they won't let the other one grow within there,
and one more thing I'd like to mention about that
is these little black squiggly lines in here,
they almost look like someone had done some writing.
That's how we know which genuses this is.
This is Graphis, and there are many
different species of Graphis, but they all
have the same thing in common that the
reproductive structures are lined up,
and they turn and twist like letters.
Amanda>> It is fun to scratch the surface.
>> Yes. >> And if people want to do more than that,
there are resources you can look at, and just
go out and start taking walks, and look at what
you see on your walks and on your trees, and
don't be alarmed when you see these things.
And...then also, the Master Naturalist course,
is one that you would reach out to
Clemson Extension to find out about and
there are often programs through that.
That's how I got to take this, And...then some
of our state parks have interpretive rangers
like you, and so you don't...
have to travel around the world. I mean, look at this,
Tim>> Right here. >> All right here,
and we have some great resources, and I want
to thank you for coming and sharing
your knowledge with us today.
Tim>> Thank you so much, Amanda. I appreciate it.