Zack Kopplin is joining us again is a science education activist working on a
campaign for evidence-based science to be tied
in science class and a reinvestment in science funding
Zack it's great to talk to you as always you know we we outlined 10 or 12 things
that are being taught in some Louisiana schools a couple of weeks ago including
the dinosaurs lived at the same time as humans
and so many other things on that long list that you're obviously very familiar
with
you're now looking at what's happening in it in a %uh public
Texas charter kind of like a super network so explain what this is and
what's being taught there
hey David thanks for having me out again and recently I've been researching the
responsive education solutions
charter network in Texas its largest charter pro in Texas
with 65 schools 17,000 students they received $82 million dollars
yearly from the public and it's teaching things like the fossil record is sketchy
that leading scientist doubt the mechanisms that wish
been and enjoy the earth and that supernatural creation is just as valid
have a way to spare the life the diversity of life on earth as evolution
and this is not science it doesn't belong the publicly-funded science
classroom
they also terrible history to their teaching things like
the samurai were responsible for japan's involved in world war two
problem is the samurai were disbanded good
roughly seventy years before World War two well the fossil one is interesting
because it really gets into
what would be called pseudo-science are taking the smallest element of truth and
turning into something it's not because yes
factually speaking statistically a very small portion
above what was around when fossils
come from do we now have as fossil evidence that's very true we make
assumptions
from a very small number of fossils about a lot of organisms
however to take that and to say that
fossils are sketchy and therefore this is an opportunity to interject
whether it's creationism or something else that's where it gets very dangerous
because you take this latest sliver up truth
and make it into something it's not yeah and they are also
say things like there are no transitional fossil which is just such a
basic misunderstanding
every file like let it sit private with receive evolution which is continually
happening every fossil
is transitional because everything continues to change
so to say there's no transitional fossil totally misses the point
but it's a way to undermine evolution again what what they want about
evolution they can weed students towards thinking
that creationism is a legitimate option so let's explore a little bit the kind
of
a public funding aspect to this because if you have the conversation with those
who want to teach creationism
about the merits of creationism you're probably not going to get anywhere at
all so it may be more
important to focus on what is the legality of
in science class not in religion class using
teaching ideas that stem from sacred texts so
what what's the legal status right now if that public funding here
teaching science based on the Bible teaching creationism is
totally unconstitutional same with intelligent design creationism
but the supreme court has ruled that creationism
in the case that was worse than you are from my home state Louisiana
that creation and cut is unconstitutional in 2005 have
a federal district court in Dover pencil bank Pennsylvania followed up
with the Dover schedule case with a ruled intelligent design is still
creationism
equally unconstitutional so you can't teach that the political science class
the problem is we have legislation like in louisiana we have the louisiana sight
Education Act in Texas we have science curriculum standards
that allow for both sides agreed of revolution to be critiqued and that's
that's where the way they sneak in as they say
we're just critiquing evolution the problem is there's no
know our real scientific critique
other pollution its all the science is the science and their
that all the evidence back solution you can challenge it and I we have been
added that Zack I would even say
if you want to challenge areas
evolution that may be or not fully flashed out at this point
or where there may be gaps in the theory anyone to do it
strictly from a scientific basis if you can do that
I don't think anyone has any kind a problem with that the issue is it
renounce evolution
would be fine public science class that is illegitimate challenges
so where does this stand then because there is this as you said
if you can kind of say the criticism
you're allowed to challenge evolution at its merits
if it happens to talk about creationism or intelligent design you getting into
kind of a legal gray area it's not necessarily
the teaching of intelligent design but it may be intelligent design creeping in
as a criticism
what what will happen legally with this so
there there's one point also making the switch a scientist challenge evolution
every day and the reason it still scientific theories because its survival
those challenges it's been challenged
continually for 150 years it's one strong as there is out there
and so there's there's no legitimate there's the
their in campaign migration the business side alternative in
distort clearly established that and on the on where the
responsibility cation solutions dance right now
the Texas Education Agency is investigating
I am currently skeptical that the investigation
isn't has any real meaning to it because first they said
that responsive at is due the big investigation is coming internally for
response to that
the problems first allowing a creationist network which is fully
creationist where
their members are there top staff have said they view charters as a way to
sneak Religion & Public Schools
update that was all that also par this the sponsor that is based off these are
a Christian Education Network
uses a very similar curriculum founded by members of the
the work and store meant to promote their
good as police they they've been so what they they sort allow that the
about and so third allow them to %uh do the investigation
themselves is problematic because
there come back and say well everything is legal and they already have soared on
that they respond to my article publicly
where they admitted everything they agreed that everything I've they
everything I published was true they claim that it's all legitimate
under the undertakes the science standards
and that they're just teaching both sides like the required to you and
that's perfectly okay to talk about racism way they're doing
and that is definitely a problem right which is the changing
the changing standards specifically in Texas and also we know about the
rewriting of so many of the books that are used
so so even the Wii U N I can kind of realize the absurdity of what they're
saying they may actually have some backing from the changes texas has made
yes and no so that they they have some protection because the standards
in Texas rough fundamental level those standards are knowledgeable production
you cannot Texas dot size standards do not from the US Constitution
so when they violate the First Amendment doesn't matter what exercise thursday
they still
cannot do it and that's the problem they don't understand
and so that but they've they've admitted everything publicly
and have basically said it doesn't matter we're still going keep teaching
and we're proud to keep teaching this
I'll then the Texas Education Agency if inform me that while they're looking at
the crate on at the time they did not say that violate the law
so its I think that's giving us quite a preview into the way they're going to
ultimately
side your which means that
were the easy option would be the Texas Education Agency
to remove the school's make sure they cannot use this curriculum
to make sure that Texas schools are teaching sites it doesn't look like
that's what happened
so that's good this looks like it's good got going to come down to a court case
eventually I I'll have Send File like to do is really write about this
but I've already heard from some teachers are responsive at
I'll are not not on the record but they will they will remain honest but they
told me that
well i spose is only the tip of the iceberg and there's tons the problems in
the schools
and I'm imagining that either parent or teacher at some point the near future
might want to watch a legal seemed and parents
whose whose children are being taught would have standing correct
yes they would complete a parent with children talk creationism
any parent Texas a response that's cool could see the program
because the right to violate and I would not be surprised to see that happen in
your future
I've Texas I mean Texas always could nip this in the bud the Texas Education
Agency could
shut down the program pit ever this great to a make sure that real science
is being taught
I just II I will give I'm hoping they do that because the investigation is not
over there's no
nothing officially out about this but I'm not hopeful
that they'll do the right thing alright science in science class I know it's
crazy in many parts to this country we've been speaking with Zack Kopplin
he's a science education activities working on a campaign for evidence-based
science to be tight in science class
keep up the great work Zack and what have you back anytime a thank you so
much for me up