>>> WELCOME BACK. PRESIDENT TRUMP LASHED OUT AT
FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER PAUL RYAN
IN A SERIES OF TWEETS LATE LAST
NIGHT AFTER A NEW BOOK REVEALED
RYAN’S NEGATIVE VIEWS OF TRUMP’S
2016 CAMPAIGN AND THE FIRST TWO
YEARS OF HIS PRESIDENCY.
TRUMP TWEETED, PAUL RYAN THE
FAILED VP CANDIDATE AND THE
FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE
WHOSE RECORD OF ACHIEVEMENT WAS
ATROCIOUS.
ATROCIOUS. ULTIMATELY BECAME A LONG RUNNING
LAME DUCK FAILURE LEAVING HIS
PARTY IN THE LURCH BOTH AS A
FUND-RAISER AND A LEADER.
ADDING QUOTE, HE HAD THE
MAJORITY AND BLEW IT AWAY WITH
HIS POOR LEADERSHIP AND BAD
TIMING.
TIMING. COULDN’T GET HIM OUT OF CONGRESS
FAST ENOUGH.
FAST ENOUGH. THE TWEETS WERE PRESUMABLY
SPARKED BY THE NEW BOOK
"AMERICAN CARNAGE" WHICH DETAILS
RYAN’S CRITICISM OF TRUMP.
RYAN TOLD AUTHOR TIM ALBERTA,
QUOTE, I TOLD MYSELF I GOT TO
HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THIS
GUY TO HELP HIM GET HIS MIND
RIGHT BECAUSE I’M TELLING YOU,
HE DIDN’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT
GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. I WANTED TO SCOLD HIM ALL THE
TIME.
TIME. WE HAVE GOTTEN SO NUMBED BY IT.
NOT IN GOVERNMENT, BUT WHERE WE
LIVE OUR LIVES.
WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO TRY
AND REBUILD.
AND REBUILD. DON’T CALL A WOMAN A HORSE FACE.
DON’T CHEAT ON YOUR WIFE.
DON’T CHEAT ON ANYTHING.
BE A GOOD PERSON.
SET A GOOD EXAMPLE.
AND TIM ALBERTA WILL BE OUR
GUEST ON "MORNING JOE" ON
MONDAY.
MONDAY. JOINING US NOW AN MSNBC
CONTRIBUTOR, NOAH ROTHMAN.
JOE, WE HAVE A LOT TO TALK ABOUT
WITH PAUL RYAN.
IT JUST SEEMS TO ME THAT THIS
BOOK -- I WONDER WHAT NOAH AND
DONNY THINK, BUT THIS BOOK SEEMS
TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE.
WE NEED LEADERS TO STEP UP IN
REALTIME.
REALTIME. THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THINGS
AT ONCE.
AT ONCE. THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE
CRITIQUES WHEN THEY ARE QUITE
FRANKLY THE OBVIOUS RESPONSE TO
SOMEONE’S ACTIONS AND THEY
SHOULD BE ABLE TO TRY AND WORK
TOGETHER AS WELL.
>> DONNY, YOU TALKED ABOUT THIS
AN AWFUL LOT.
PAUL RYAN WAS THE THIRD HIGHEST
RANKING LEADER IN AMERICA.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT HIS
COMMENTS?
COMMENTS? >> HE WAS THE HOPE.
HE WAS THE BIGGEST
DISAPPOINTMENT BECAUSE HE WAS IN
A POSITION -- EVEN IF SHORT TERM
IT HAD COST HIM, YOU SAID THIS
MANY TIMES, DONALD TRUMP’S
HISTORY WILL SHOW THAT PEOPLE
ARE TARNISHED BY THE TOXICITY OF
HIM AND ANYBODY WHO WOULD HAVE
STOOD UP TO HIM AND I THINK RYAN
WAS THE ONE GUY WHO COULD HAVE
DONE.
DONE. EVEN AT THAT TIME IT TOOK HIM
DOWN, IT WOULD HAVE SET HIM UP
TO BE ONE OF THE GREAT LEADERS
OF OUR COUNTRY TO GO FORWARD.
HE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE GUY TO
SAY I TOLD YOU SO.
HE HAD THE GRAVITAS, HE HAD THE
POSITION AND THE CREDIBILITY.
HE HAD THE TRUE CONSERVATIVE
NATURE AND CREDENTIALS AND YES,
HE’S SAYING ALL THESE THINGS
NOW.
NOW. BUT TO MIKA’S POINT, THEY SHOULD
HAVE BEEN SAID IN 2016.
THAT’S WHAT BRAVE PEOPLE DO.
THAT’S WHAT LEADERS DO.
>> SO NOAH, THESE QUOTES FROM
PAUL RYAN IN THE BOOK, WHICH I
HAVE TO TELL YOU I GOT AN
ADVANCE COPY AND IT’S RELENTLESS
AND HE TELLS OF THE TRUMP
PRESIDENCY.
PRESIDENCY. THIS IS WHAT THEY WANTED TO HEAR
FROM PAUL RYAN, I UNDERSTAND HE
HAD A TRICKY JOB AS SPEAKER, HE
HAD TO MANAGE A CAUCUS, A LOT OF
WHICH LIKE DONALD TRUMP, A LOT
OF PEOPLE IN HIS OWN DISTRICT
LIKED DONALD TRUMP.
BUT HE DIDN’T SAY SOMETHING WHEN
HE HAD A CHANCE TO DO SOMETHING
ABOUT IT AND TO SAY IT AFTER THE
FACT IS FRUSTRATING.
>> THERE’S THE IMPERATIVE OF
GOVERNING.
GOVERNING. IN THE FIRST YEAR OF THE TRUMP
PRESIDENCY I RECALL SEEING A LOT
OF ON BACKGROUND QUOTE FROM
SOURCES, PEOPLE CLOSE TO
REPUBLICANS EVEN LAKERS
EXPRESSING THEIR DEEP
FRUSTRATIONS WITH THE PRESIDENT
AND HIS LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF
HOW GOVERNMENT WORKS AND ALSO
HIS COMPORTMENT, HIS PERSONAL
BEHAVIOR WAS FRUSTRATING FOR
THEIR AGENDA AND PAUL RYAN HE
INHERITED THIS CAUCUS.
HE WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO COULD
WRANGLE IT.
WRANGLE IT. NOBODY COULD UNITE IT WHEN
BOEHNER RETIRED AND HE RAN
AGAINST HIS SIGNATURE POLICY
ISSUES.
ISSUES. HE RAN ON SUPPORT FOR EXAMPLE
THE -- THE MANDATE, THE
INDIVIDUAL MANDATE TO PURCHASE
HEALTH INSURANCE.
HEALTH INSURANCE. HE RAN AGAINST CUTS IN SOCIAL
SECURITY AND MEDICARE AND
BALANCING THE BUDGET.
THAT IS PAUL RYAN’S COURSE AND
MISSION IN GOVERNMENT AND WHEN
HE WAS ELECTED PAUL RYAN WAS
DEFLATED.
DEFLATED. HE HAD TO MANAGE AND GUIDE THE
PRESIDENT IN A PARTY HE HAD LOST
CONTROL OF EVEN THOUGH HE WAS
THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.
>> YOU READ TIM’S BOOK, IT’S NOT
JUST PAUL RYAN BY THE WAY IN THE
CAMPAIGN DURING THE ACCESS
WEEKEND, THERE’S A REPORT ABOUT
HOW DISGUSTED REPUBLICANS WERE.
YOU TAKE THE SNAPSHOT OF THE WAY
THAT REPUBLICANS FELT THAT WAY
AND PEOPLE WALKED AWAY FROM HIM
PUBLICLY AND PRIVATELY FROM
DONALD TRUMP AND HOW HE
CONDUCTED HIMSELF WHEN HE BECAME
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES,
IT’S NIGHT AND DAY.
>> IT’S NIGHT AND DAY.
I HAVE TO SAY THAT PAUL RYAN DID
HAVE A CHOICE.
HE HAD A CHOICE EVERY DAY.
HE WAS SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.
A THIRD ONLY BEHIND THE VICE
PRESIDENT AND THE PRESIDENT.
ARTICLE I GIVES THE SPEAKER AND
THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
EXTRAORDINARY POWERS.
EXTRAORDINARY POWERS. PAUL HAD THE POWER OF THE
CHECKBOOK.
CHECKBOOK. AND, YOU KNOW, REV, WHEN WE WERE
JUST LITTLE BACK BENCHERS IN
CONGRESS WE HAD A CHOICE AND WE
STOOD UP TO NEWT GINGRICH WHEN
WE THOUGHT THAT NEWT WAS MOVING
AWAY FROM THE THINGS THAT WE HAD
CAMPAIGNED ON.
CAMPAIGNED ON. AND THE POWERS OF THE SPEAKER
ARE EXTRAORDINARY.
ARE EXTRAORDINARY. SO I DON’T REALLY -- I DON’T BUY
THAT PAUL RYAN DIDN’T HAVE A
CHOICE.
CHOICE. THAT’S WHAT PAUL TOLD EVERYBODY.
THAT HE DIDN’T HAVE A CHOICE.
HE HAD A CHOICE.
HE JUST CHOSE TO BE QUIET AND
ALLOWED DONALD TRUMP TO HAVE HIS
WAY.
WAY. >> I THINK YOU RAISED A CRITICAL
POINT.
POINT. THE REAL REASON THAT THE BACK
BENCHERS AS YOU CALLED
YOURSELVES AT THAT TIME WOULD
CHALLENGE A SPEAKER OR OTHERS
WOULD CHALLENGE PEOPLE THAT WERE
IN POSITIONS IS YOU WENT THERE
FOR A REASON AND YOU BELIEVED IN
SOMETHING.
SOMETHING. I WHEN I HEAR ALL THIS FROM PAUL
RYAN WHERE YOU’LL COMPROMISE ON
SERIOUS GOVERNMENT POLICY, AND
EVEN ON WHAT YOU WOULD DEAL WITH
AS APPROPRIATE PERSONAL BEHAVIOR
I HAVE TO QUESTION HOW MUCH YOU
REALLY BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU SAY
YOU BELIEVE IN IF YOU WOULD
COMPROMISE ALL OF THAT FOR THE
MOMENT OF MAKING SOME
TRANSACTION.
TRANSACTION. YOU -- IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE
SOMETHING, THIS IS WHERE THE
EVANGELICALS ARE GOING TO FACE.
IF YOU BELIEVE IN SOMETHING,
THERE COMES A POINT WHERE YOU
DON’T COMPROMISE IT OR YOU
REALLY DON’T REALLY BELIEVE IN
IT.
IT. I THINK THAT’S WHERE THE CHOICES
COME IN.
COME IN. I THINK WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE
BACK BENCHERS THAT TOOK ON NEWT
GINGRICH OR SOME EVEN ON THE
LEFT THAT TAKE ON PEOPLE IS
THAT’S A REAL DIVISION BETWEEN
THOSE OF US WHO REALLY BELIEVE
WHAT WE SAY OR THOSE WHO SAY IT
BUT WE REALLY DON’T BELIEVE IT
BECAUSE WE -- WHEN WE GET TESTED
WE’RE NOT WILLING TO GO ALL THE
WAY.
WAY. >> WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GO
BACK TO THE DAY THAT PAUL RYAN
ENDORSED DONALD TRUMP.
A COUPLE OF DAYS AFTER CALLING
HIM A RACIST.
AND MIKA AND I SAID IN REALTIME
THAT HE WAS HANDLING THAT
RELATIONSHIP WRONG.
RELATIONSHIP WRONG. YOU NEVER GIVE DONALD TRUMP
SOMETHING FOR NOTHING.
AND THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT PAUL
RYAN DID.
RYAN DID. HE FOLDED.
HE FOLDED. HE CAVED.
HE CAVED. AT THE BEGINNING OF THE
RELATIONSHIP, DONALD TRUMP DOES
NOT RESPECT WEAKNESS.
DONALD TRUMP A BULLY POLITICALLY
ONLY UNDERSTANDS STRENGTH, AND
PAUL DIDN’T SHOW HIM THAT EARLY
ON.
ON. AND HEIDI, THAT SET UP A
RELATIONSHIP WHERE DONALD TRUMP
WOULD NEVER --
>> DESTINED FOR FAILURE.
>> WOULD RESPECT PAUL RYAN.
IF YOU’RE PAUL RYAN YOU FIGHT
YOUR ENTIRE LIFE FOR FREE TRADE
AND YOU’RE CAVING TO A GUY WHO’S
A HERBERT HOOVER PROTECTIONIST.
YOU FIGHT YOUR ENTIRE LIFE TO
STAND UP TO RUSSIA AND YOU’RE
CAVING TO A GUY WHO KOWTOWS TO
AN EX-KGB AGENT, WHO IS RUNNING
AN AUTOCRACY IN TURKEY.
IN RUSSIA.
IN RUSSIA. YOU HAVE THE SAME THING IN
TURKEY WITH ERDOGAN WHERE AT
TIMES DONALD TRUMP CAVES TO HIM.
HE CAVES TO OUT AUTOCRATS IN
NORTH KOREA AND IN THE
PHILIPPINES.
PHILIPPINES. I MEAN, WE COULD TALK ABOUT
ENTITLEMENT REFORM.
ENTITLEMENT REFORM. PAUL AND I ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT
THE IMPORTANCE OF ENTITLEMENT
REFORM TO SAVE SOCIAL SECURITY
AND SAVE MEDICARE.
DONALD TRUMP SAID FROM THE VERY
BEGINNING I’M NOT TOUCHING
EITHER OF THOSE THINGS SO HOW
DID PAUL RYAN JUSTIFY EVERYTHING
THAT HE OVERLOOKED?
>> YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER SO MANY
POINTS, JOE, DURING HIS TENURE
REACHING OUT TO PEOPLE CLOSE TO
PAUL RYAN AND ASKING, YOU KNOW,
WHAT IS HE THINKING, IS HE GOING
TO SAY SOMETHING AND EVERY TIME
THE ANSWER WAS ALWAYS THE SAME
THAT WHILE PAUL RYAN HAD STRONG
PERSONAL FEELINGS FOR INSTANCE
ABOUT THE COMMENTS AROUND
CHARLOTTESVILLE THAT HE WAS
QUOTE/UNQUOTE A BOY SCOUT.
AND THAT HE HAD THIS CODE, WHICH
I GUESS WAS ESSENTIALLY A CODE
OF SILENCE BECAUSE WE NEVER DID
HEAR HIM COME OUT FORCEFULLY
WHILE HE WAS THERE.
TO ME, SOMEONE WHO’S FOLLOWED
PAUL RYAN’S CAREER IN THE HOUSE
AND FOLLOWED THE THINGS THAT
HE’S MOST IMPORTANT -- FOUND
MOST IMPORTANT IN HIS CAREER,
THE MOST POIGNANT EPITAPH IS
PROBABLY HIS POSITION ON THE
DEFICIT BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH HIS
PARTY IS ALSO A PARTY THAT VERY
MUCH SUPPORTS TAX CUTS THE
CHAMPION OF THE LATEST ROUND OF
TAX CUTS AND HAVING THAT KIND OF
BE THE NOTE ON WHICH HE WENT OUT
AS SPEAKER AND OUT OF CONGRESS
IS REALLY POIGNANT BECAUSE
WHAT -- BECAUSE OF WHAT IT DID
DO TO THE DEFICIT AND BECAUSE
ALL OF THE THINGS THAT PAUL RYAN
STOOD FOR WITH HIS BUDGET.
HE WAS KIND OF THE PERSON WHO
CHAMPIONED THIS BUDGET THAT
WOULD SAVE SOCIAL SECURITY FOR
THE LONG HAUL.
ALL OF THOSE THINGS WERE WASHED
OUT THE WINDOW WITH THOSE TAX
CUTS.
CUTS. >> WELL, YOU WONDER WHAT OTHER
REPUBLICANS STILL SERVING IN
OFFICE ARE THINKING AS THEY
CONTINUE TO SUCK UP TO THIS
PRESIDENT AND GIVE HIM SOMETHING
FOR NOTHING AND AGREE WITH EVEN
THE MOST EGREGIOUS THINGS THAT
MIGHT COME OUT OF HIS MOUTH OR
THAT HE MIGHT HAVE DONE DURING
HIS PRESIDENCY, DURING HIS
CAMPAIGN.
CAMPAIGN. THEY KNOW THIS ENDS BADLY.
AND YET, THEY DON’T STAND UP TO
HIM EVEN ON THE MOST BASIC
THINGS.
THINGS. I HAVEN’T HEARD ANYBODY SPEAKING
OUT EVEN ABOUT THE LABOR
SECRETARY ON THE REPUBLICAN
SIDE.
SIDE. >> YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT’S BEEN VERY TRUE AND VERY
CLEAR IN THIS PRESIDENCY IS THAT
THE SILENCE OF MANY PEOPLE DOES
SPEAK VOLUMES.
SPEAK VOLUMES. YOU KNOW, LOOKING BACK AT WHAT
PAUL RYAN SORT OF EVOLUTION ON
DONALD TRUMP FIRST AS A
CANDIDATE AND THEN AS PRESIDENT,
PAUL RYAN WAS SORT OF PRESENTING
HIMSELF AS A PRAGMATIST.
I MEAN, THIS IS NOT SOMEONE WHO
I PERSONALLY AGREE WITH, I MAY
DISAGREE WITH A LOT OF THINGS
THAT HE SAYS BUT I CAN WORK WITH
THIS PRESIDENT TO GET THINGS
DONE AND WE SAW THAT IN HIS WORK
UP TO THE HISTORIC TAX CUTS THEY
WERE ABLE TO PUSH THROUGH.
NOT NECESSARILY ON HEALTH CARE,
WHICH WAS IMPORTANT TO PAUL RYAN
AS WELL.
AS WELL. BUT CERTAINLY ON THE TAX CUTS.
BUT REMEMBER, PAUL RYAN WENT
FROM NOT SAYING VERY MUCH
PUBLICLY TO TEPIDLY SUPPORTING
THE PRESIDENT.
THE PRESIDENT. AND WE SAW THAT WITH A LOT OF
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE. WE HAVE SEEN THAT OVER THE LAST
2 1/2, 3 YEARS I CAN’T SEE HE’S
UNIQUE IN ANY WAY.
NOW HE’S FREE TO SPEAK HIS MIND,
HE IS OUT THERE GIVING
INTERVIEWS AND SHOWING WHAT HE
REALLY BELIEVED TO BE TRUE AT
THE TIME.
THE TIME. YOU CAN’T IMAGINE WE WON’T SEE
IT WITH OTHER PEOPLE AS WELL
WHEN THEY FEEL THEY’RE FREE TO
SAY WHAT THEY REALLY FEEL.
>> WELL, MIKA, YOU --
>> AREN’T THEY FREE --
>> YEAH, THEY’RE FREE TO SPEAK.
>> THEY’RE FREE RIGHT NOW.
>> THEY’RE CHOOSING NOT TO.
>> YOU HAVE A VOICE, AND THIS IS
AMERICA.
AMERICA. >> BUT, YOU KNOW, MIKA, YOU LOOK
AT THE BEFORE AND THE AFTER’S.
THE QUOTES ABOUT DONALD TRUMP.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. >> WHETHER IT’S MICK MULVANEY OR
LINDSEY GRAHAM AND HE SAID THAT
HE WOULD DESTROY THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY
WOULD DESERVE TO BE DESTROYED IF
HE GOT IN POWER AND NOW LINDSEY
IS A SYCOPHANT OF HIM.
AND LOOK AT WHAT KEVIN McCARTHY
SAID, CAUGHT ON TAPE, THAT
DONALD TRUMP HE BELIEVED HAD
TAKEN PAYOFFS FROM VLADIMIR
PUTIN.
PUTIN. >> YEP.
>> YEP. >> AND NOW KEVIN McCARTHY IS
SUCKING UP TO DONALD TRUMP EVERY
DAY.
DAY. AND YOU CAN GO DOWN THE LIST
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM TALKING
ABOUT HOW HORRIBLE DONALD TRUMP
WAS, AND THE SECOND HE GOT INTO
POWER SUDDENLY HE’S THEIR BEST
FRIEND.
FRIEND. >> PITIFUL.