IT'S HYPOCRISY. >> THANKS FOR YOUR EXCELLENT
REPORTING. >> THANK YOU.
>> I'M JOINED BY AUTHOR OF THE NEW BOOK "WE WERE EIGHT YEARS IN
POWER" A PHENOMENAL READ YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY PICK UP.
I'M LOOKING AT YOUR FACIAL EXPRESSION WHILE WATCHING ME
RECOUNTING THIS. WHAT'S GOING THROUGH YOUR HEAD?
>> I AM LITERALLY SPEECHLESS. I'M NOT SPEECHLESS FROM THE FACT
OF LEARNING THE INFORMATION. I'M SPEECHLESS THAT WE NEEDED
THIS. AND I'M NOT TRYING TO -- THE
REPORTING, WHICH WAS EXCELLENT. NEEDED TO BE DONE.
BUT IS THIS REALLY SURPRISING? THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY
WERE. THIS ACCORDS WITH EVERYTHING
ELSE WE KNEW ABOUT DONALD TRUMP. EVERYTHING ELSE WE KNEW ABOUT
STEVE BANNON. I THINK THERE'S A GROUP OF
PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRIED TO WILLFULLY DELUDE THEMSELVES
ABOUT THE NATURE AND WANT TO HAVE REALLY THIN CONVERSATIONS
ABOUT WHAT IS WHITE SUPREMACY AND WHAT IS NOT.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE WE NEED. I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED STEVE
BANNON TO ACTUALLY LYNCH SOMEBODY ON THE WHITE HOUSE LAWN
TO GET THE MESSAGE. BUT IT SEEMS PRETTY CLEAR TO ME.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT COMES THROUGH IN THIS ARTICLE, AND I
THOUGHT ABOUT IT IN REFERENCE TO THE FIRST WHITE PRESIDENT ESSAY
THAT YOU PUBLISHED RECENTLY, IS THEIR AWARENESS THAT THERE IS
POWER IN THE THING THEY'RE CULTIVATING.
>> THEY'RE RIGHT. THEY'RE CORRECT.
>> THEY KNOW THERE'S CLICKING, AUDIENCE, ENERGY, THERE'S
PASSION, SOME FUEL AND THAT'S PART OF WHY THEY'RE GOING TO IT
BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE ENERGY IS AND AT THE SAME TIME THEY
RECOGNIZE THEY'RE PLAYING A DANGEROUS GAME, WHICH IS TRYING
TO CHANNEL THAT FUEL BUT MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN STAY
DISASSOCIATED ENOUGH FOR PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY.
>> THERE'S ANOTHER SECTION OF AMERICANS, OBVIOUSLY, SOME OF
THEM WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WHO COULD BE COMPLETELY APPALLED
AT THE EXPLICIT ALLIANCE WITH RACISM AND WHITE SUPREMACISTS.
IT'S BEEN PRETTY CLEAR. WHEN E WAS A CANDIDATE, THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES SAID OF A JUDGE OFFICIATING OVER
HIS CASE, HE'S A MEXICAN. >> HE CAN'T JUDGE ME.
>> BECAUSE HE'S A MEXICAN. I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW MORE
EXPLICIT WE CAN GET HERE. >> YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THEMES
IN THE ESSAYS AND IN YOUR WRITING IS ABOUT SORT OF WHITE
SUPREMACY AND RACISM IN TERMS OF ANT BLACKNESS, SPECIFICALLY THE
WAY IT WAS BUILT UP. THERE'S A POLITICAL HIS THINK OF
THE WAYS THAT PLAYS OUT IN CRIME AND THE WAY WE DEALT WITH THE
CRACK EPIDEMIC. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE FACT
THAT BLACKNESS IS NOT THE PRIMARY TARGET OF THIS KIND OF
POLITICS THESE DAYS OR OFTEN IF IT IS A PRIMARY IT IS ALONG WITH
MUSLIMS AND IMMIGRANTS WHO ARE ALSO VERY MUCH THE TARGET?
>> I DON'T KNOW HOW DIFFERENT THAT IS.
AL SMITH RAN FOR PRESIDENT AND HE WENT, YOU KNOW, INTO THE --
OBVIOUSLY WHITE BY OUR TERMS. THEY BURNT CROSSES.
>> BECAUSE HE WAS CATHOLIC. >> THERE'S ALWAYS AN
ANTI-SEMANTIC ELEMENT. YOU CAN FIND CARTOONS IN THE
19th CENTURY JUST AFTER ENSLAVEMENT AND SEE THE IRISH
AMERICANS EQUATED WITH BLACK PEOPLE.
THAT'S NOT TO DIMINISH BUT THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN OWE GROUPS
ALONG WITH BLACK PEOPL PEOPLE B THE VICTIMS OF WHITE SUPREMACY.
>> WHAT'S TABOO AND WHAT'S NOT. THE SALUTE IS TABOO.
MY FAVORITE PART OF THAT STORY IS THEY GET KICKED OUT OF THE
BAR IN DALLAS. >> RIGHT.
>> THAT'S NOT -- YOU KNOW, YOU SEE THAT IN YOUR BAR, YOU SAY
GET THE HECK OUT OF MY BAR, RIGHT?
SAYING IS THE ONLY GOOD THING THAT ISLAM HAS DONE IS 9/11 OR
THAT ALL MOSQUES ARE A FACTORY OF MATE.TE.
THAT IS DECIDEDLY LESS TABOO. >> IT'S ACCEPTABLE.
IT'S ACCEPTABLE. IT'S A DIFFERENT LINE.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE RELATIONSHIP
BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, OUR CRIMINAL ACTS AND HISTORY, THE HOLOCAUST.
IT'S NOT ON THE GUILTY, NOT ON THE CONSCIENCE OF AMERICANS SO
WE HAVE A MUCH EASIER TIME FINGER WAVING ABOUT THAT AS
OPPOSED TO THE PROXIMITY OF HISTORY WITH 9/11.
THAT'S A DIFFERENT THING. PEOPLE FEEL FOR JUSTIFIED IN
THEIR BIGOTRY, PERHAPS. BUT IT'S QUITE CLEAR THAT'S NOT
A LINE THAT, YOU KNOW -- THERE'S NO LINE IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW,
FORBE BIDDING FOLK TO USE THAT SORT OF LANGUAGE.
>> ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS I THINK YOU MADE IS, YOU KNOW, THE
TABOOS HAVE BEEN KNOCKED AWAY, THE SUB TEXT HAS BECOME THE
TEXT, THE QUIET PART IS SAID LOUD IN THE ERA OF TRUMP AND
THAT'S HIS POWER. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE PEOPLE
WHO SAY I AM A NEVER TRUMPER AND I CONDEMN WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT
MEXICANS AND CONDEMN HIM WITH CHARLOTTESVILLE BUT I REMAIN
REPUBLICAN AND I'M A CONSERVATIVE.
>> WELL I APPLAUD THE CONDEMNATION.
I WOULD SAY IT'S A LITTLE LATE. I DON'T THINK TRUMP EMERGED OUT
OF NOTHING. I WOULD ASK WHERE THESE PEOPLE
WERE WHEN BARACK OBAMA WAS FORCED TO HOLD UP HIS BIRTH
I WOULD ASK WHERE THESE PEOPLE WERE, HATE MONGERS LIKE PAM
GELLER WAS SPEWING NONSENSE ABOUT THE MOSQUE, I WOULD ASK
WHERE THESE PEOPLE WERE WHEN THIS WHOLE IDEA OF SHARIA LAW
WAS MADE SOME SORT OF ISSUE. THIS IS BUILT ON A LONG HISTORY.
DONALD TRUMP DIDN'T COME OUT OF NOWHERE.
I COULD TAKE IT BACK AND SAY WHERE WERE THESE PEOPLE IN THE
DAY OF WILLIE HORTON. THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS BEEN
PLAYING WITH THE FIRE. THERE'S A SYNERGY IN WATCHING
HOW STEVE BANNON IS SORT OF PLAYING, YOU KNOW, WITH THESE
HATERS WHO ARE BEYOND THE LINE AND HOW THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS
HISTORICALLY PLAYED WITH RACISM TRYING TO SADDLE UP TO THE LINE.
>> AND ALSO THE WAY THAT HE SICKED IT AGAINST HIM.
YOU GOT BANNON, MOORE AND THEN THE RACE IN V VIRGINA.
ED GILLESPIE WON. THIS IS THE AD THAT ED GILL
LEPSCY IS RUNNING AS THE ESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATE.
>> MOTTO IS KILL, RAPE, CONTROL. THIS VIOLENT GANG HAS BEEN TIED
TO BRUTEN MURDERS ACROSS VIRGINIA.
NOR THAM CAST THE DECIDING VOTE IN FAVOR OF SANG RARE CITIES
THAT LET ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS BACK ON THE STREETS.
RALPH NOR THAM WEAK ON MS 13 PUTTING VIRGINIA FAMILIES AT
RISK. >> AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THE
PRESIDENT SAYING ROLFE NARTHAM IS FIGHTING FOR THE VIOLENT MS
13 GANGS. >> IT LOOKS FAMILIAR.
AND THE NEED TO PLACE THIS RACISM, THIS KIND OF BIGOTRY AND
WHITE SUPREMACY TOTALLY ON THE SHOULDERS OF THIS ALT-RIGHT
IGNORES THE FIGHT THAT THE TABLE WAS PREPARED OVER YEARS.
>> WHAT ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?
>> THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS ITS HISTORY TOO.
THERE'S A LONG HISTORY WHICH AYE OUTLINED IN HIS WORK, CERTAINLY
GOING BACK TO ROOSEVELT. NO ONE IS IMMUNE TO IT.
IT'S JUST AT THIS MOMENT OF POLITICS RIGHT NOW, AND HAVE
BEEN AT LEAST SINCE THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, ONE PARTY
DECIDED TO RUN TOWARDS THAT AND EXTRACT ITS ENERGY FROM THAT.
THAT DOESN'T MAKE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IMMUNE.
>> HOW IMPORTANT -- I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE THE SORT OF VIEW OF THE
POWER OF THIS FORCE, WHITE SPRAEMCY AND AMERICAN POLITICS
THAT HAS A CONTINUITY. HOW IMPORTANT IT IS FOR SOMEONE
WHO RUNS A CAMPAIGN LIKE THIS TO LOSE?
>> I'M ONLY PAUSING ON THE QUESTION BECAUSE I HAVE -- AND
I'M NOT -- I'M GOING TO CONFESS THAT I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THIS.
OBVIOUSLY I WOULD LIKE THAT PERSON TO LOSE.
BUT I'M NOT SURE WHETHER THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE ACTUAL
CANDIDATE DECIDE TO SIPHON OFF THE ENERGY OR THE FACT THAT THE