JOURNALISM AND PROFESSOR AT
MORGAN STATE UNIVERSITY AND
MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR.
LUKE, TAKE ME THROUGH WHAT YOUR
REPORTING TODAY WITH YOUR
COLLEAGUES.
>> SURE.
SO WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO OBTAIN A
SUBPOENA ISSUED BY THE GRAND
JURY IN D.C. AND IT DOES REVEAL
SOME IMPORTANT AVENUES THAT
THEY'RE LOOKING INTO.
ONE IS SO-CALLED VIPs AT THE
JANUARY 6 RALLY.
THEY'RE REQUESTING INFORMATION
FROM WITNESSES ABOUT THESE TRUMP
VIPs.
THE SECOND IS ANYONE IN THE
EXECUTIVE OR LEGISLATIVE BRANCH
WHO HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH
PLANS TO DISRUPT OR INTERFERE
WITH THE JANUARY 6 VOTE OF
CONGRESS, THE CERTIFICATION OF
JOE BIDEN'S ELECTION BEFORE
CONGRESS.
AND THEN THE THIRD IS THE SCHEME
TO USE PRO-TRUMP ELECTORS OR
FAKE ELECTORS IN STATES THAT
WERE WON BY JOE BIDEN TO
ACTUALLY VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP
INSTEAD.
AND SO THOSE ARE HUGE TOPICS.
THOSE ARE SPRAWLING TOPICS.
SO THIS INVESTIGATION COULD
POTENTIALLY GO ANYWHERE.
WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE IT
IS GOING OR WHAT THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT WILL FIND.
BUT WE DO KNOW NOW FROM THE
SUBPOENA EXACTLY SOME VERY
SPECIFIC AVENUES WHERE WHAT THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS LOOKING
INTO AS THEY WORK THEIR WAY UP
FROM RIOTERS TO POTENTIALLY
OTHER PEOPLE.
>> LUKE, I THINK ANYONE OF YOUR
EARLIER APPEARANCES ON THIS
PROGRAM WAS SEVERAL AFTER YOU
WROTE A PIECE REALLY SORT OF
INVESTIGATING AND REPORTING OUT
CONNECTIONS BETWEEN SITTING
REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS
AND SOME OF THE VERY SAME
EXTREMIST GROUPS WHO ARE UNDER
SCRUTINY BOTH BY THE 1/6
COMMITTEE AND VERY MUCH SO BY
DOJ.
I WONDER HOW THIS SUBPOENA
POTENTIALLY PULLS SOME OF THEM
IN BASED ON WHAT YOU JUST
MENTIONED ABOUT POTENTIAL
LEGISLATIVE TARGETS.
>> AGAIN, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE
DON'T KNOW, RIGHT.
BUT IT DOES SPECIFICALLY SAY
LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.
SO THAT MEANS IN THE FEDERAL
SYSTEM, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
CONGRESS, RIGHT.
SO POTENTIALLY WE KNOW THERE
WERE CONNECTIONS BETWEEN SOME OF
THE PEOPLE WHO WERE PLANNING
RALLIES AND SOME MEMBERS OF
CONGRESS.
TO THAT IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE
ASK ABOUT.
WE KNOW THAT SOME MEMBERS OF
CONGRESS DIDN'T HAVE
INTERACTIONS OR MEETINGS WITH
DIFFERENT EXTREMIST GROUPS OVER
TIME.
COULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT
THEY ASK ABOUT.
WE HONESTLY DON'T KNOW THE
ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS.
BUT WE DO KNOW FROM THE SUBPOENA
THAT AT LEGISLATIVE BRANCH IS
SOMETHING THAT THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT IS NOW INTERESTED IN
AS THEIR ASKING WITNESSES FOR
THIS GRAND JURY.
>> JACKIE, ONE OF THE SORT OF
DRAMATIC UNDERCURRENTS AROUND
THE 1/6 COMMITTEE IS WILL THEY
OR WON'T THEY SUBPOENA THEIR OWN
COLLEAGUES.
AND I WONDER IF THE PRESSURE MAY
NOT GO THE OTHER WAY.
WE'VE TALKED FOR SO LONG ABOUT
CHAIRMAN THOMPSON AND VICE CHAIR
CHENEY'S AGGRESSIVE POSTURE ON
CRIMINALITY.
IT MAKES CLEAR THAT THEY FEEL
THEY HAVE GATHERED ENOUGH
EVIDENCE TO SAY THAT CRIMES WERE
COMMITTED.
YOU KNOW HAVE THE FEDERAL JUDGE
IN THE EASTMAN CASE THAT LIKELY
FELONIES WERE COMMITTED DONALD
TRUMP AND NOW YOU HAVE DOJ
SAYING THAT IT'S CRIMINAL
INVESTIGATION WILL NOW IF NOT
TARGET, SCRUTINIZE THE
LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.
HOW MIGHT THAT INFLUENCE A
DECISION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT TO
SUBPOENA MEMBERS?
>> YEAH, NICOLLE, I THINK THAT
COULD POTENTIALLY INFLUENCE THE
COMMITTEE.
ALTHOUGH THEY HAVE DONE A GOOD
JOB AT THIS POINT IN TIME OF
SORT OF ABIDING BY THE FIRE WALL
BETWEEN THE COMMITTEE AND THE
DOJ.
WE HAVE JUST REPORTED EARLIER AS
ONE EXAMPLE OF THE FIRE WALL
THAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
ACTUALLY STONEWALLED COMMITTEE
STAFFERS WHO SOUGHT TO LEARN
MORE INFORMATION ABOUT
PROSECUTORS'S VIEWS ON THE
IMPENDING REFERRALS FROM MARK
MEADOWS AB LIKELY TO PASS
THROUGH THE HOUSE TONIGHT FOR
DAN SCAVINO AND PETER NAVARRO
AND FOR PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH THE
MATTER.
THE DEPARTMENT HAS NOT ACTED ON
THE DECEMBER VOTE.
BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE ISSUE
OF ACTUALLY SUBPOENAING THEIR
OWN COLLEAGUES, THIS IS
SOMETHING WHERE A DOJ
INVESTIGATION COULD HELP ALEVY
ATE SOME OF THE PRESSURE THAT
MEMBERS HAVE BEEN WEIGHING
BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.
WE'VE BEEN TOLD THAT LAWMAKERS
HAVE BEEN ACUTELY OF AWARE OF
NOT TRYING TO FURTHER INFLAME
THE SITUATION AND I THINK THAT A
RED LINE THAT HAS SORT OF BEEN
DRAWN AND AS WE'VE SEEN SO FAR
AT LEAST BECAUSE THE COMMITTEE
HAS VOLUNTARILY REQUESTED THAT
PEOPLE LIKE HOUSE MINORITY
LEADER KEVIN McCARTHY AND JIM
JORDAN AND SCOTT PERRY APPEAR
BEFORE THE COMMISSIONY AND THEY
HAVE NOT YET COOPERATED AND WE
HAVEN'T SEEN SUBPOENAS.
THE COMMITTEE IS TREADING
LIGHTLY WITH THESE KINDS OF
CASES.
BUT I DO THINK AT THE END OF THE
DAY, IF THESE CONTEMPT REFERRALS
ARE CONTINUED TO BE LEFT HANGING
AND ULTIMATELY RENDER CONGRESS'S
SUBPOENA POWER TOOTHLESS, THEN
WE COULD SEE THE COMMITTEE TRY
TO TAKE THE DIFFERENT MOVES IN
ORDER TO APPLY MORE PRESSURE FOR
COOPERATION.
AS THEY SCRAMBLE TO CLOSE UP
THIS INVESTIGATION AND MOVE
TOWARDS THE PUBLIC HEARINGS.
>> NEIL, I WANT TO READ A LITTLE
BIT MORE FROM LUKE'S REPORTING
AND THEN I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT
WHERE THIS MAY LEAD.
THE TIMES IS REPORTING THIS, IT
IS NOT CLEAR IF ANY TRUMP ERA
EXECUTIVE OR LEGISLATIVE BRANCH
MEMBERS ARE RECEIVED SUBPOENAS.
THERE IS NO PUBLIC INDICATION
THAT ANYONE HAS BEEN TARGETED
FOR PROSECUTION.
BUT IN LOOKING FOR MORE
INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT WAS
HAPPENING AT BOTH THE WHITE
HOUSE AND ON CAPITOL HILL, AS
TRUMP SOUGHT TO STAY IN POWER,
THE HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE HAS
EXPRESSED INTEREST IN KRAIM
ADVISERS AMONG THEM IS MARK
MEADOWS AN THE WHITE HOUSE CHIEF
OF STAFF, KATRINA PEERSON, A A
LONG TIME TRUMP POLITICAL
ADVISER IN DIRECT CONTACT WITH
TRUMP ABOUT THE DETAILS OF THE
RALLIES ON JANUARY 5th AND
JANUARY 6 AND INCLUDING WHO
WOULD BE SPEAKING AND WHAT MUSIC
WOULD BE PLAYED.
WE FORGET SOMETIMES THAT TRUMP,
FOR AS BAD AS HE WAS AT THE
DETAILS OF PROTECTING DEMOCRACY
AND FIGHTING A PANDEMIC, WAS
OBSESSED WITH THE PRODUCTION
DETAILS OF POLITICAL EVENTS,
FROM THE PLAY LIST.
AND I REMEMBER THIS WHEN I READ
THIS GREAT REPORTING FROM LUKE
AND HIS COLLEAGUES.
THIS IS SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE
1/6 COMMITTEE, BUT IF THE TWO
BODIES, CONGRESS AND THE WHITE
HOUSE AND THESE TWO ACTIVITIES
PLANNING OF THE RALLIES COME
UNDER SCRUTINY BY DOJ, THAT
SEEMS LIKE THE CLEAREST
INDICATION YET THAT IF THEY DO
WHAT MERRICK GARLAND SAID WHAT
THEY'RE DOING AND FOLLOW THE
FAKES, THOSE LEAD STRAIGHT TO
DONALD TRUMP.
>> YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT,
NICOLLE.
SO I THINK THAT THE STORY TODAY
IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" IS
REALLY WELCOME NEWS BY THE
GARLAND JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
AND WHAT A SUBPOENA IS, IS IT IS
A REQUEST BY PROSECUTORS FOR
DOCUMENTS.
IT IS NOT LIKE A TARGET LETTER
SAYING YOU COMMITTED A CRIME.
THEY'RE STARTING TO INVESTIGATE.
AND THOSE OF US HAVE BEEN --
INCLUDING YOURSELF AND I HAVE
BEEN CONCERNED THAT SO FAR THE
INVESTIGATIVE SIGNS HAVEN'T REALLY RADIATED BEYOND BASICALLY
REALLY RADIATED BEYOND BASICALLY
WHO INVADED THE CAPITOL.
BUT NO, THE SUBPOENAS ARE
BROADER AND THEY INCLUDE
PLANNING FOR JANUARY 6 AND WHO
SPOKE THERE AND WHO ORGANIZED
THE JANUARY 6 STUFF, AND THAT IS
A LOT.
I MEAN, AT IN POINT THE SUBPOENA
MIGHT AS WELL INCLUDE THE
CATEGORY OF ANYONE WHO
IRONICALLY CONSIDERED DOWNLOAD
TRUTH SOCIAL.
IT IS A LOT OF PEOPLE.
AND YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY A LOT
PEOPLE ARE SWEPT UP IN THIS LIKE
THE GREATER NUMBER THAN TRUMP
PROBABLY GAVE COVID TO.
IT IS A BROAD AMOUNT.
AND ONE THAT MAY ULTIMATELY WIND
UP BEING AT TRUMP'S FOOT STEP
FOR THE REASONS YOU'RE
SUGGESTING.
THE IDEA THAT DONALD TRUMP
WASN'T INVOLVED IN THE
PRODUCTION AND THEATRICS OF
JANUARY 6 HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BIT
DIFFICULT TO SWALLOW.
BUT I THINK THAT IS WHAT THE
INVESTIGATORS ARE BUILDING THEIR
CASE FOR, IT IS STILL EARLY ON
AND I WOULD SAY ONE OTHER THING
TO MERRICK GARLAND'S CREDIT,
THIS WAS NOT ANNOUNCED IN A
PRESS RELEASE OR ANYTHING.
MY GUESS IS THE WAY IN WHICH
LUKE GOT THIS INFORMATION IS
FROM ONE OF THE TARGETS OF A
SUBPOENA, NOT FROM SOME LEAK OR
EVEN OFFICIAL PRONOUNCEMENT,
THAT IS THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
DOING ITS JOB RIGHT, QUIETLY AND
IN THE SHADOWS, WE'VE ALL BEEN
HOPING THAT THE INVESTIGATION