With eight or so hours to
kill inside
that Manhattan courthouse
today, Donald Trump occupied himself
and one of his favorite ways
as the jury was deliberating,
he seemed to be testing
just about how many posts per minute
he could fire off on truth social.
By our count,
Donald Trump
or maybe his aides posted
more than 40 times,
including everything
from clips of Fox
News to quotes from people
defending them,
some of them misquotes,
I should note,
as well as repeating claims
that he has made for weeks
now about this case, this judge
and this court.
My next guest
has been in the room
with the former president
during some of the most
tense moments imaginable.
Trump's former national security adviser,
John Bolton, is here.
And Ambassador Bolton,
it's great to have you.
I mean,
this is one of the most
fascinating parts to me
is that
Trump can't leave the courthouse
while the jury is there deliberating.
He has to be in the actual courtroom,
previously in the courthouse.
I just wonder what you think
that means to him.
Well, I think it's driving him crazy.
I mean,
back in the day, sweated
out a few jurors and
it's nerve racking for everybody.
But because the defendant
has to be available,
if the jury comes in with a verdict,
you can't have him wandering away.
So he's kind of stuck there.
And 40 tweets or whatever
we call truth socials
these days, that's probably a low number.
Let's see what it is tomorrow.
Yeah, it was remarkable
to kind of scroll through
and he'd only been in there for,
you know, 12 or so minutes.
But the reason he's there,
when they get a note,
he and his legal team
also go in the room to
to hear what the note is.
It would obviously be quite important.
And I know
you and I have talked
about this case before,
You don't agree with the underlying
premise of it.
But but
this verdict is going to come
from a jury of 12 of its peers.
They'll make the decision on the evidence
that they have seen,
that none of us have quite
seen it in the way that they have.
And I just wonder, you know,
how you think Trump will react
to the verdict regardless of what it is?
Well, I think he's obviously
preparing himself.
And I think the odds favor, in my view,
a hung jury.
But I do think conviction is possible.
I think acquittal is almost,
almost impossible.
So between the two possibilities,
he'll certainly declare victory
if it's a hung jury
and he'll
blame the conviction
if that's what it is on the deep state.
The difference between this
and other prior crises
for for Trump that threaten him
and his future
is this time
he's in the middle
of an election campaign.
So he's got a particular target
and that's Joe Biden.
And amidst the general
outrage we will hear
expressed, I think the
campaign is certainly trying
to channel him toward
keeping his eyes on the prize,
which is defeating Biden.
Now, whether he sticks with that
plan is a different question.
But I think that that's one
major difference.
The four of us just as General
Trumpian war of all against all.
But now he's got an opponent
he has to beat in six months.
And that's where I think
the focus will be.
What do you make of what I've heard
from some Trump
folks that
that a conviction will help him?
I don't I don't think a conviction
even in a manhattan
courtroom helps anybody.
He will still be potentially
a convicted felon at that point.
I think a lot of independent voters,
they may say that's the end of it for us.
It may it may fire Trump's base up
and he may be able to say,
well, I'll win on appeal
and explain it that way.
It's not a good
look to be convicted
under any circumstances.
Not everybody believes that
this is an unfair prosecution.
Not everybody believes
Joe Biden
and the Democratic Party are driving it.
There'll be issues on appeal.
He might get it overturned on appeal,
but I don't think he cares about that.
He's worried about the conviction
before the election.
You're a lifelong Republican
and you've often touted
the merits
of the US justice system
when you're on the world stage
and how our courts work,
and that
any American can be held accountable,
no matter your status or your rank
or your office
that you've previously held.
Do you think Republicans
and Republican voters
and everyone should be able to have faith
in what this verdict is from this jury?
Well,
I think the jury is going to do its job.
I really do.
And if you don't like the jury
because it's in Manhattan
and it has a certain demographic,
ask Donald Trump,
why did his entire business
career in Manhattan?
You know, you get to pick where you
where you live.
He picked it.
Now he's going to bear the consequences
of it.
There's merit to the claim
that this case has political
bias behind it.
The district attorney campaigned
specifically saying
he was going to get Donald Trump
and now he's got him in court.
But it's also possible somebody,
a prosecutor, is motivated by politics
but has an actual
breaking of the law situation
that he's brought against the defendant.
We'll see what the jury says on it.
But the fact is
that Trump
still has the full potential to appeal.
It's not over for him
just because of the jury verdict.
And if you don't
if you say that you oppose
the entire judicial system
because you think one person's
being treated unfairly,
it's a very destructive course
to go down, especially for conservatives.
Well, that's
I'm so glad you brought that up,
because Marco Rubio
wants to be vice president.
It's quite clear
he's an esteemed senator.
He clearly is hoping for this job.
I mean, he's comparing this
to what the Soviet Union
does to political opponents there.
And I mean, that's a comparison
that some Republicans may see and say,
well, he has a point, you know,
but it's not just Alvin Bragg
who is doing this.
There's a jury in that room.
There is a case that has to be made.
They're not just making up evidence
and the jury is listening to that.
So what do you make of people
like Senator Rubio's claims?
Well, I think there's a danger of
of questioning the integrity
of all of our legal institutions
this way.
And Trump only cares about Trump.
He doesn't care
if the institutions rise or fall.
He just wants to know
what Donald Trump's fate is going to be.
And I think for Republicans to play into
his hands is a huge mistake.
You've already
got other people who are out there
questioning the system
from the other side.
And if I were in Moscow or Beijing,
I would say anything that undercuts
Americans general faith
in their constitution,
their institutions weakens America.
It doesn't matter
whether it's from the left or right.
It's an attack
on the integrity of the system itself,
that in the case of Donald Trump
and this prosecution is just not evident.
Ambassador John Bolton,
great to have you here on set. Thank you.