the Walter Cronkite school of
journalism at Arizona state
university.
Amna: Turkish president
recep tayyip erdogan this
afternoon, in a surprise
announcement, said he would put
Sweden's bid for nato membership
before the Turkish parliament.
President erdogan had insisted
that Sweden needed to do more to
crack down on kurdish militants,
some of whom have sought refuge
in scandinavia.
Sweden and Finland announced
their intentions last summer to
join nato.
Finland was admitted in April.
Even this morning, erdogan
proposed that Swedish membership
in nato was a bargaining chip,
one that could be traded for
Turkey's long-dormant
application to join the European
union.
In the meantime, leaders from
nato's 31 countries began
arriving in Vilnius, Lithuania,
ahead of a two-day summit that
begins tomorrow.
Before all of this, our Laura
barron-lopez spoke early today
with the U.S. Ambassador to
nato, Julianne Smith.
Laura: Thank you so much for
joining us.
Ukrainian foreign minister
dmytro kuleba said today that
nato's allies have reached a
consensus to remove the
membership action plan
requirements such as military
and democratic reforms for
Ukraine's pathway to nato
membership that conceivably
would fast-track their
membership.
So what's stopping Ukraine from
becoming a full member now?
>> First of all on the question
, of the membership action plan,
that is something that some new
members or newly added members
have used on their path to
membership.
It is not always the case that
aspirants use that program.
Finland and Sweden are not
working through a membership
action plan.
But we are.
We, the United States, we
support lifting that particular
requirement for Ukraine.
And I don't want to get ahead of
any of the summit deliverables,
so I'm not going to get into the
details of what the actual
communique will say.
But that is something that
allies have been looking at in
terms of what stands between
Ukraine and membership.
Obviously, our focus right now
is on helping the Ukrainians end
this war.
Putin could end it today if he
so desired.
We continue to get practical
support into the hands of the
Ukrainian military commanders
and will be looking at some of
the ongoing reforms that the
Ukrainians have been undertaking
to qualify for nato membership.
Laura: President Biden recently
said that he doesn't think
Ukraine is ready for membership
in nato right now, that it takes
time to meet qualifications,
including democratization.
But with that map requirement
dropped, what qualifications are
left, and why not issue a
timeline for their membership?
Smith: Well, first and foremost,
we want, again, the war to end
that is currently taking place
on Ukrainian territory, and
that's the priority number one.
But the Ukrainians themselves
have talked about the need for
additional reforms.
There are a variety of
democratic and security sector
reforms that aspirants need to
meet.
Ukraine has traveled quite some
distance since the alliance said
that they would become a member
in 2008.
But they will tell you, nato
will tell you, that we'll
continue to work together, that
they finish those list of
reforms.
Laura: Is there a problem with
the Ukrainian democracy that
disqualifies them from being a
nato member?
Smith: I don't want to get into
any of the specifics here.
I will say that broadly, before
a country joins the alliance, we
do work with those aspirant
countries on a variety of
reforms to ensure that they will
uphold all of the values that
this alliance is designed to
protect.
So we look at things like rule
of law, we look at their
democratization, we look at
things like anti-corruption.
That's standard practice for any
new member that's coming into
the alliance.
Laura: The cluster munitions
that the administration
announced Friday that are going
to be sent to Ukraine, how
quickly will they be sent?
Smith: I don't know the
specifics about that.
I think we're talking weeks, not
months.
Laura: In terms of long term
security commitments that the
United States is prepared to
make to Ukraine, what exactly
are the requirements as nato --
as Ukraine waits for a full nato
membership?
Smith: We are talking about
making a commitment to them that
we will support Ukraine not just
right now in this moment while
Russia has invaded its territory
and continues to conduct the war
but that long-term the united
States is prepared to make a
bilateral commitment to Ukraine
that it will continue to help
that country meet security needs
so that this does not happen
again and we expect we will have
some news on that later this
week here on the margins of the
nato summit.
Laura: Can you give any
specifics at all about the
potential for tangibles there at
the end of the summit?
Smith: Yes, this summit actually
is going to have a whole list of
concrete deliverables.
I'll tick through just a couple
of them.
One, the alliance is going to be
rolling out new regional plans
that will ensure that the
alliance can literally defend
every inch of nato's territory.
This is a generational change
for the alliance.
We're also going to be rolling
out something called the defense
investment pledge, which will
follow up on the 2% commitment
that allies made to spend 2% of
gdp on defense.
We're going to have four
countries from the indo-pacific,
Australia, New Zealand, Japan,
and the republic of Korea here
with us in Vilnius to talk about
shared security challenges.
And then we'll have this package
of deliverables for our friends
in Ukraine that will showcase
our continued unity and resolve
to stand shoulder to shoulder
with them as they protect their
territory.
Laura: Ambassador Julie Smith,
thank you so much for your time.
Smith: Thank you.
♪♪