>>> LET’S TAKE A STEP BACK AND ACTUALLY CONSIDER ONE THING MOST
PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON AGREE ON
RIGHT NOW.
RIGHT NOW. DONALD TRUMP’S CLOSER TO
IMPEACHMENT TONIGHT THAN HE WAS
LAST MONTH OR LAST YEAR OR
REALLY ANY OTHER TIME.
WE KNOW THAT FROM THE WHIP
COUNT.
COUNT. HERE’S ANOTHER THING THAT MOST
PEOPLE AGREE ON.
IT’S NOT BECAUSE OF BOB MUELLER
OR NANCY PELOSI, WHO LONG
RESISTED THIS TRUMP.
DONALD TRUMP IS CLOSER TO
IMPEACHMENT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF
THIS ANONYMOUS WHISTLE-BLOWER
WHO TOOK A MAJOR RISK WORKING
WITHIN THE SYSTEM AND THE LAW TO
WARN HIS OR HER BOSSES IN THE
INTELLIGENCE DEPARTMENT AND
ULTIMATELY CONGRESS ABOUT THIS
NOW-EXPOSED UKRAINE PLOT.
THESE LEAKERS TAKE MAJOR RISKS
TO THEIR CAREER OR EVEN MORE.
NOW WHEN YOU HAVE A FORMAL
WHISTLE-BLOWER LIKE THIS, IT’S
NOT A CONVENTIONAL LEAK.
REMEMBER, HE OR SHE DIDN’T LEAK
TO THE PRESS.
HE OR SHE FOLLOWED THE RULES AND
FEDERAL LAW.
FEDERAL LAW. OTHER MISCONDUCT HAS BEEN
EXPOSED BY LEAKS.
THERE’S GREAT DEBATE OVER WHEN
IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO BLOW THE
WHEN I FELT OR LEAK.
ONE OF AMERICA’S MOST FAMOUS
LEAK CERTIFICATES OF COURSE
DANIEL ELLSBERG.
DANIEL ELLSBERG. HE UPENDED THE VIETNAM WAR WITH
THE PENTAGON PAPERS LEAK WHEN
LEND TO A LANDMARK SUPREME COURT
CASE WHICH PROTECTED THE RIGHT
TO PUBLISH CERTAIN LEAKS.
ELLSBERG IS A FITTING PERSON TO
TALK TO TONIGHT.
I JUST SPOKE TO HIM AND HE SPOKE
ABOUT HOW RISKY IT IS TO
CHALLENGE A PRESIDENT.
>> I NEVERTHELESS CONGRATULATE
THIS WHISTLE-BLOWER ON THE
SUCCESS THAT THEY’VE HAD SO FAR
IN GETTING THAT INFORMATION OUT,
AND ON THE COURAGE THAT SHE
SHOWED OR HE SHOWED IN TAKING
THIS ON.
THIS ON. EVEN FOLLOWING THE RULES, TO
CHALLENGE A PRESIDENT FOR
WRONGDOING IS NOT SAFE, EITHER
PHYSICALLY OR LEGALLY, AND I
HOPE THAT THE DEMOCRATS IN
CONGRESS IN THE HOUSE WILL TAKE
EVERY PRECAUTION TO KEEP HER
IDENTITY OR HIS IDENTITY SECRET
FROM THE PRESIDENT.
>> WE ASKED MR. ELLSBERG ABOUT
DONALD TRUMP’S ACTION AND PUBLIC
THREATS AGAINST THIS
WHISTLE-BLOWER, INCLUDING
WHISTLE-BLOWER, INCLUDING COMPARED WITH OTHER PRESIDENTS.
>> I DON’T THINK ANY OF THE
PREVIOUS PRESIDENTS PUT A TARGET
ON THE BACK OF THE
WHISTLE-BLOWER CALLING TO ARMED
AND VIOLENT CONSTITUENTS IN SOME
CASES TO SAY THAT THAT PERSON
SHOULD BE TREATED BEFORE TRIAL,
BEFORE DUE PROCESS, ANYTHING
ELSE, AS A SPY OR A TRAITOR.
HE IS CALLING FOR PHYSICAL
ATTACK, I WOULD SAY I THINK
THAT’S AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE OR
CRIMINAL OFFENSE IN ITSELF.
>> AN IMPEACHABLE OR CRIMINAL
OFFENSE, VERY INTERESTING FROM
SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN THROUGH
THESE ISSUES TO THE POINT OF
CREATING PRECEDENTS THAT REMAIN
TO THIS DAY.
AS PART OF OUR REPORTING, WE
WANT TO POINT OUT THAT OF COURSE
MANY LEAKERS PAY HUGE PENALTIES.
CONSIDER A FORMAL CIA EMPLOYEE
NAMED JOHN KIERIAKOU.
HE PUBLICLY DISCUSSED TACTICS
LIKE TORTURE AND WATERBOARDING,
THEN WAS CONVICTED LATER OF
PROVIDING THE IDENTITY OF AN
UNDERCOVER OFFICER TO A
JOURNALIST WHO ULTIMATELY, WE
SHOULD NOTE, DIDN’T PUBLISH THE
NAME.
NAME. MR. KIERIAKOU SPEND TWO YEARS IN
PRISON.
PRISON. I SPOKE TO HIM, AND HE SPOKE
ABOUT DONALD TRUMP CALLING THE
WHISTLE-BLOWER A SPY AND HOW
DANGEROUS IT IS.
>> THIS IS A VERY, VERY
DANGEROUS THING THAT HE’S DOING.
WHEN I BLEW THE WHEN I FELT ON
THE CIA’S TORTURE PROGRAM, I GOT
WHAT THE FBI CALLED THREE
CREDIBLE DEATH THREATS.
I ACTUALLY HAD TO TAKE MY FAMILY
AND LEAVE TOWN WHERE TO WEEK.
WHEN YOU HAVE THE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES JOKING, MAYBE,
MAYBE NOT JOKING, ABOUT DEATH
PENALTY OFFENSES FOR SOMEONE
REPORTING WASTE, FRAUD, ABUSE,
OR ILLEGALITY, I THINK THAT’S
VERY TANGDANGEROUS TACK TO TAKE.
>> THAT COMES FROM SOMEBODY WHO
PAID A PRICE FOR LEAKING TO BE
SURE.
SURE. HOUSE DEMOCRATS ARE TRYING TO
PROTECT THE WHISTLE-BLOWER’S
IDENTITY FROM WHAT THEY CALL
TRUMP’S ALLIES WHO MAY TRY TO
EXPOSE THE WHISTLE-BLOWERS.
I ASKED KEIRIAKOU IF
WHISTLE-BLOWERS NEED TO WORRY
ABOUT RETALIATION.
ABOUT RETALIATION. DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE TO WORRY
ABOUT BEING IMPROPERLY CHARGED?
>> I DO THINK THEY HAVE TO
WORRY.
WORRY. IT’S IMPROPER AND INAPPROPRIATE
THAT THEY HAVE TO WORRY.
IF YOU SEE ANY OF THAT, ANY OF
THAT FRAUD OR ILLEGALITY, YOU
ARE COMPELLED BY LAW AND BY YOUR
OATH TO GO TO THE AUTHORITIES.
ANY WHISTLE-BLOWER OR POTENTIAL
WHISTLE-BLOWER REALLY DOES HAVE
TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT THIS
WHOLE THING MAY FALL APART AND
YOU MAY FIND YOURSELF BEHIND
BARS EVEN IF YOU BELIEVE YOU DID
THE RIGHT THING.
>> YOU COULD FIND YOURSELF
BEHIND BARS.
BEHIND BARS. WHATEVER YOU THINK OF WHY PEOPLE
DO THESE THINGS, THAT MAY BE
CHILLING FOR PEOPLE IN
GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. BUT THAT’S NOT REALLY THE DARK
NOTE WE END ON, HAVING CONSULTED
THESE FAMOUS PEOPLE WHO MADE
THESE HARD CALLS AND DIDN’T KNOW
HOW IT WAS GOING TO TURN OUT.
I WANT TO LEAVE YOU WITH
SOMETHING DANIEL ELLSBERG ALSO
TOLD ME TONIGHT.
IT’S HIS ADVICE FOR PEOPLE IN
GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW WHO MIGHT
BE CONCERNED ABOUT PRESIDENT
TRUMP’S ONGOING CONDUCT.
WHAT DO YOU, DANIEL ELLSBERG,
SAY TO THESE NOW TWO
WHISTLE-BLOWERS OUT THERE
TONIGHT?
TONIGHT? >> I CONGRATULATE THEM.
WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO IS
THE PEOPLE WHO, LIKE ME, KEPT
THEIR MOUTHS SHUT WHEN THEY KNEW
THE PRESIDENT WAS DOING WRONG.
I LEARNED BETTER ONCIVESE IVES W
VIETNAM AND LEARNED WHAT THE
STAKES ARE.
STAKES ARE. >> DO YOU THINK THERE ARE OTHERS
IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION?
>> I’M ABSOLUTELY SURE.
FOR ONE THING, THE
WHISTLE-BLOWER REVEALED THERE
WERE MORE THAN A DOZEN PEOPLE ON
THAT PROGRAM, ON THAT CALL.
THIS PRESIDENT IS TURNING OUT TO
BE A DOMESTIC ENEMY OF THE