MR SPEAKER: Question No 9, Hon Phil Goff.
Hon PHIL GOFF (Labour—Mt Roskill) to the Minister of Defence:
How many NZ Defence Force personnel have begun training and preparation
for deployment to Iraq, and when was he first advised
that training had begun?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister of Defence): There has been no decision to deploy troops
to Iraq. I have not been advised that NZ Defence Force personnel
are training to deploy to Iraq.
Hon Phil Goff: How does he match the answer that he has just given
to the House with a statement from a spokesperson
for the Minister of Defence on Tuesday— and I want to read it sir,
because it is in quote marks; the first part is not, but the second is—
that Gerry Brownlee had confirmed that Defence Force personnel
had begun training, and the spokesperson said that “some training and preparation
on a contingency basis” had begun? That was his spokesperson on—
Mr SPEAKER: Order! The question has been asked.
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: That is right, and that training is about language
and culture and various other things, and, as I explained yesterday,
we have 100 personnel in the Middle East. We have not made a decision to deploy
to Iraq and we are not training people to deploy to Iraq.
Hon Phil Goff: If he keeps saying that no decision has been taken,
why did John Key tell Tony Abbott, when he was in Australia,
that 40 to 100 NZ Defence Force personnel would be deployed to Iraq?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: Well, now we are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
I was with the Prime Minister in Australia and what I can tell the member over there
is that a discussion was had on the basis that if NZ was
to contribute to the fight against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria,
then it would be on humanitarian grounds, in intelligence capacity,
and in capacity building for Iraqi forces, and, if requested by the Iraqi Government,
then we may partner with the Australians with numbers in and around those limits.
Hon Phil Goff: Oh, come on. Weasel words— weasel words.
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: Not weasel words—very direct.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order!
Hon Phil Goff: What did he as Minister of Defence
tell the American Secretary of Defense on his recent visit to the United States
about what the likely military contribution of NZ to Iraq would be?
And there is a record of—
[Interruption] Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Hon Phil Goff: There’s a record of that, and I’ll be asking for it.
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: Yes, OK. We know that when Phil gets records,
he often alters them to his own story— a long record, at that.
We discussed a number of things, not the least of which was the
current circumstances surrounding he Secretary’s own position,
and I made it very clear to him that we appreciated the friendship
that he has extended to NZ over a period of years.
Hon Phil Goff: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.
I asked a very specific question, which was what did he tell
the Secretary of Defense about what the likely contribution
of NZ to Iraq would be. The Minister did not even address that.
Mr SPEAKER: I will hear from the Hon Gerry Brownlee before I rule.
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: What I did say to him was that we had people in the Middle East
at the present time looking at the prospects around capacity building.
I explained to him that we would be most likely to join
with the Australians if a decision was made,
it made it very clear to him that no decision was made at this point.
Hon Phil Goff: Why would he deploy Kiwi soldiers to Iraq
and put their lives at risk when that can do nothing
to resolve the fundamental problems underlying the ineffectiveness
and incompetence of the Iraqi army, which has been disclosed
as having a level of entrenched incompetence to the extent that
military leaders are politically appointed,
military officers buy their commission—
[Interruption] Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Bring the question to an end.
[Interruption] Order!
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: Well, I will point out to the member once again
that we have not made a decision to deploy. I am most interested that the member
has that information. They are the sorts
of things that concern me also.
Mr SPEAKER: Question No 10, David Bennett.
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