>>> WELCOME BACK TO "HARD BALL." BOB WOODWARD SPOKE ABOUT HOW
PRESIDENT TRUMP AVOIDED
ANSWERING MUELLER’S QUESTIONS
UNDER OATH IN "FEAR."
BOB WOODWARD JOINS US NOW.
HOW DID HE AVOID THAT?
EVERYBODY WANTED TO SEE THAT
ROOM.
ROOM. THEY WANTED TO SEE IT.
>> LIKE CLINTON.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. >> BUT THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR,
SPECIAL COUNSEL REALLY CAN’T
FORCE A PRESIDENT TO TESTIFY AND
PEOPLE SAY, HE COULD HAVE
SUBPOENAED HIM.
SUBPOENAED HIM. THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A LOSER IN
THE SUPREME COURT, PARTICULARLY
THIS SUPREME COURT, BUT WHAT I
CHRONICLED WAS JOHN DOWD WHO WAS
TRUMP’S LAWYER FOR EIGHT
CRITICAL MONTHS DID PRACTICE
SESSIONS WITH HIM AND THEY WENT
THROUGH IT.
THROUGH IT. HE SAID TO TRUMP, YOU MAKE
THINGS UP.
THINGS UP. YOU LIE.
YOU LIE. YOU’RE GOING TO WIND UP IN A
JUMP SUIT IF YOU TESTIFY, AND
WHAT DOWD DID, WHICH IS QUITE
EXTRA ORDINARY IN WASHINGTON, HE
STOOD ON A PRINCIPLE AND SAID,
I’M NOT GOING TO SIT NEXT TO YOU
AND HAVE YOU DO THIS TO YOURSELF
AND WIND UP IN THAT ORANGE JUMP
SUIT.
SUIT. I’LL RESIGN.
I’LL RESIGN. >> THAT’S MISSING PERJURY.
HE WASN’T GOING TO DO IT.
>> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. ALSO, THERE WAS A PRINCIPLE
THERE.
THERE. BOB, HERE
BOB, HERE I’M HERE AS YOUR LAWYER TO
DEFEND YOU AND YOU’RE NOT
LETTING ME DO IT.
THEY RESISTED TESTIFYING.
DOWD DID RESIGN TO SEND THE
MESSAGE AND THE NEW TEAM OF
LAWYERS, GIULIANI AND SO FORTH,
STUCK TO THAT LINE WITH TRUMP.
>> LET’S TALK ABOUT MUELLER’S
JOB HERE.
JOB HERE. THE WORD I WAS GETTING FROM SOME
OF THE LEGAL EXPERTS IS WHEN YOU
GO TO OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE,
PARTICULARLY THAT KIND OF
CHARGE, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND
CORRUPT INTENT BECAUSE A LOT OF
THIS WAS DONE IN BROAD DAYLIGHT
AND YOU CAN’T DISCERN OR DETECT
CORRUPT INTENT WITHOUT A
MEETING, WITHOUT A SITDOWN.
SO HOW DID MUELLER DECIDE HE
COULDN’T CONVICT, HE COULDN’T
EXONERATE BUT HE NEVER GOT TO
THE NEED HE HAD, THE NECESSITY
OF SITTING DOWN WITH THE GUY?
>> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. AND THE RESISTANCE BY TRUMP AND
HIS LAWYERS, NO, I’M NOT GOING
TO DO IT.
TO DO IT. THE ROUTE WOULD BE A SUBPOENA.
IT WOULD BE CHALLENGED, GO TO
THE SUPREME COURT AND IT WOULD
BE THE -- YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE
2021 BEFORE THIS WAS DECIDED.
EVEN IF YOU EXPEDITED IT.
SO, AGAIN, THIS IS AN
ILLUSTRATION AS WE LOOK AT THIS
IN DETAIL, THE POWER A PRESIDENT
HAD.
HAD. >> WHY DIDN’T BILL CLINTON KNOW
THIS?
THIS? HE HAD A GREAT LAWYER IN BOB
BARNETT -- BOB BENNETT.
BARNET’S ANOTHER GREAT LAWYER.
WHY DID HE GO AND AGREE TO SIT
DOWN ON CAMERA AND TALK ABOUT
MONICA LEWINSKY.
MONICA LEWINSKY. >> HE THOUGHT HE HAD NO CHOICE
BECAUSE IT WAS A CIVIL SUIT AND
HE WAS BEING SUBPOENAED AND
THERE WERE COURT RULINGS THAT HE
WOULD HAVE TO TESTIFY, BUT THE
KEY POINT HERE IS TRUMP
UNDERSTANDS THE POWER OF NO.
NO, I’M NOT GOING TO DO IT.
NO, I’M NOT GOING TO --
>> LET’S TALK ABOUT THAT POWER,
BOB.
BOB. >> YES.
>> YES. >> YOU WENT THROUGH THE WHOLE
WATERGATE INVESTIGATION LEADING
IT IN THE JOURNALIST’S POINT OF
VIEW.
VIEW. I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT.
REMEMBER THE PHRASE, RELEASE THE
TAPES?
TAPES? >> YES.
>> YES. >> PEOPLE ARE DRIVING PAST THE
WHITE HOUSE IN THE SUMMER OF ’74
BLOWING THEIR HORNS.
IT WAS A FREER COUNTRY THEN YOU
COULD DRIVE RIGHT PAST 1600
PENNSYLVANIA.
PENNSYLVANIA. BLOW THE HORNS, RELEASE THE
TAPES.
TAPES. TODAY WILL THEY SAY, RELEASE THE
REPORT?
REPORT? >> YES.
>> YES. I THINK EVERYBODY WHO IS SAYING
WE HAVE TO SEE THE REPORT IS
QUITE CORRECT.
QUITE CORRECT. GOD IS IN THE DETAILS HERE.
AND THIS IS UNDER DISPUTE AND SO
LET’S LOOK AT IT.
I HAVE NO IDEA AND NO ONE I’VE
TALKED TO HAS ANY IDEA OR WILL
SAY HOW LONG IT IS.
IT MIGHT BE THOUSANDS OF PAGES.
>> OR THREE.
>> WELL, NO.
>> YOU THINK IT IS LONG?
>> OH, SURE.
IT HAS TO BE.
>> LET’S TALK ABOUT THE
DIFFERENCE IN POLITICS BECAUSE I
KNOW YOU’RE NOT A POLITICAL
REPORTER PER SE.
YOU’RE AN INVESTIGATIVE
REPORTER.
REPORTER. BUT THE DIFFERENCE IN POLITICS
BACK THEN WHEN REPUBLICANS --
AND THEY WERE NOT ALL MODERATE
REPUBLICANS, THEY WERE REGULAR
REPUBLICANS WHO GRADUALLY SAID,
YOU KNOW WHAT, I THINK NIXON DID
IT, I THINK HE IS RESPONSIBLE
FOR OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, WE
HAVE THE EVIDENCE AND WHEN IT
COMES TIME TO DO IT WE WILL VOTE
TO REMOVE HIM FROM OFFICE.
REMEMBER WHEN GEORGE WALLACE
WOULDN’T HELP OUT NIXON IN THE
SOUTH, EVEN THE CRUSTY
SOUTHERNERS WERE WILLING TO VOTE
FOR IMPEACHMENT.
FOR IMPEACHMENT. >> AT ONE POINT AFTER NIXON
RESIGNED, BEAR REMEMBER
GOLDWATER HAD CARL AND MYSELF UP
TO HIS APARTMENT HERE IN
WASHINGTON, QUITE NEARBY, AND
READ FROM HIS PERSONAL DIARY THE
LAST MEETING THE REPUBLICAN
LEADERS HAD WITH NIXON.
NO ONE ELSE WAS THERE AND NIXON
KNEW HE WAS GOING TO BE
IMPEACHED, CHARGED IN THE HOUSE,
AND HE KIND OF JOKED ACCORDING
TO GOLDWATER’S DIARY, CONFIRMED
BY THE OTHER PARTICIPANTS, HEY,
LOOK, BARRY, HOW MANY VOTES DO I
HAVE?
HAVE? 20?
20? KIND OF YOU NEEDED 34 TO STAY IN
OFFICE IN A SENATE TRIAL, AND
GOLDWATER SAID, MR. PRESIDENT, I
COUNTED, YOU HAVE FOUR VOTES.
ONE OF THEM IS NOT MINE.
AND TALK --
>> ROUGH.
>> ROUGH. >> YES, ROUGH.
STUCK IT TO HIM.
THE NEXT NIGHT NIXON ANNOUNCED
HE WAS RESIGNING.
>> THAT’S ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR
BOOKS, "THE FINAL DAYS."
A HELL OF A BOOK.
ANYWAY, OVER THE PAST 24 HOURS
DEMOCRATS HAVE SPOKE WITH ONE
VOICE IN CALLING FOR THE MUELLER
REPORT TO BE RELEASED IN FULL.
LET’S WATCH.
LET’S WATCH. >> THE ENTIRE UNFILTERED REPORT
AS WELL AS THE EVIDENCE
UNDERLYING THAT REPORT MUST BE
MADE AVAILABLE TO CONGRESS AND
TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
>> THE MUELLER REPORT MUST BE
MADE PUBLIC FOR A FULL
ACCOUNTING.
ACCOUNTING. >> LET’S HAVE THE PRESIDENT URGE
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO RELEASE
THE REPORT IN ITS TOTALITY TO
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
>> I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
DESERVE TO SEE THE REPORT
ITSELF, NOT SIMPLY THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL’S SUMMARY OF IT.
>> WE NEED THE MUELLER REPORT
AND THE DOCUMENTATION RELEASED
SO THAT THE PUBLIC CAN MAKE A
DETERMINATION.
DETERMINATION. >> OBVIOUSLY WE REALLY NEED TO
SEE MR. MUELLER’S REPORT.
>> WE WILL BE PUSHING IN EVERY
DIRECTION TO MAKE SURE THAT IT
IS RELEASED.
IS RELEASED. >> AND I WANT TO SEE THE WHOLE
REPORT, AND CERTAINLY THE PUBLIC
WANTS TO SEE THE REPORT.
NEARLY 90% OF THE PUBLIC HAS
SAID THAT THEY WANT TO SEE THE
REPORT.
REPORT. >> DEMOCRATS SPEAKING IN
HARMONY.
HARMONY. >> YES.
>> YES. AND TRUMP HIMSELF SAID, OKAY, IT
IS OKAY AS FAR AS HE’S
CONCERNED.
CONCERNED. >> BUT THEN HE SAID IT WILL BE
UP TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.
>> YES, BUT, SEE, LOOKING AT THE
DETAILS OF THAT REPORT ARE ONLY
ONE PATH WE’RE ON.
THE OTHER PATH, ALL OF THESE
INVESTIGATIONS IN NEW YORK AND
THE U.S. ATTORNEY THERE IN THAT
OFFICE IS CELEBRATED FOR TOUGH
INVESTIGATIONS.
INVESTIGATIONS. THERE ARE LOTS OF ALLEGATIONS
AND THESE ARE THE
FOLLOW-THE-MONEY ISSUES, AMONG
OTHERS.
OTHERS. >> YEAH.
>> YEAH. >> AND I THINK THE THIRD PATH IS
THE COUNTERINTELLIGENCE
THE COUNTERINTELLIGENCE INVESTIGATION THAT’S GOING ON.
NORMALLY THOSE THINGS ARE NOT
MADE PUBLIC, BUT IT WOULD BE
QUITE SOMETHING TO SEE WHAT THEY
CAME UP WITH.
AND AS YOU KNOW, THE MEDIA IS
BEING CRITICIZED NOW.
OH, OKAY, THERE WAS ALL OF THIS
HYPERVENTILATION ABOUT ALLEGED
COLLUSION AND SO FORTH.
YOU LIVED THROUGH THIS AS I HAVE
FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS,
AND I THINK THE MEDIA, NBC, MY
NEWSPAPER, "THE WASHINGTON
POST", THE "WALL STREET
JOURNAL", "THE NEW YORK TIMES",
DID A VERY GOOD JOB WITH ALL OF
THESE ALLEGATIONS AND LIES OUT
THERE.
THERE. THERE’S NO WAY YOU’RE GOING TO
SIT AT HOME, EVEN MYSELF AT MY