New pictures
now of
Donald Trump inside the car
as he was being driven
to the courthouse in Miami
waving to the camera.
This was not long before
he was actually arrested
inside the building
on federal criminal charges.
Let's get some perspective
on what the former president
is going through today
from some veterans of the Trump
White House.
Former White House press secretary
Stephanie Grisham,
former deputy White House press
secretary Sarah Matthews,
both join me now.
Stephanie, let me start with you.
Trump in some ways
seems to try to relish moments like this.
He seems to try to spin the narrative.
He talks about how they're out to get him
because they're really out
to get the American people, etc.
But I have to say, in the in the images
we saw from the Doral,
he seemed rather dejected.
What do you think, Sara?
What do you think he's going through?
I do think that there is a
sense of normalcy
sometimes in the chaos and Trump world.
It's not like
they haven't been through this before,
not just with the first indictment
in the Alvin
Bragg case,
but you look at the two impeachment
proceedings that he went through.
So I do think that they are kind of
used to knowing how to operate
in these kinds of situations.
They know the drill.
But certainly
I think
this is to a more serious degree
than what he's faced previously.
And Stephanie, what do you think
Well, I would agree with Sarah.
You know,
I think he's absolutely dejected.
I think that was a perfect word
for you to use.
He doesn't want to be arrested.
I think he even just said that
on an interview somewhere.
He doesn't like that.
He thinks that it's not elegant.
He thinks that it takes away
some of his power deep down.
So he definitely doesn't like it.
But being Trump,
he's going to double,
triple down as he's been doing
and he's going to fundraise off of it.
He's going to play the victim,
as you just said.
And I did think it was really interesting
that earlier
it was said that
he's keeping people closer
I think he's got to be feeling
pretty desperate right now.
He doesn't have a lot of staff.
People are scared.
People are getting in real trouble.
And I think that's weighing heavily
on his mind as well.
Sarah, how did you see him
treat classified documents?
Does any of this
come as a surprise to you?
This wasn't
something that
I was necessarily privy to in my role
being in the press office.
But I do think that
if we know anything about Trump,
he wasn't your typical president
and he didn't
always follow procedures
and the norms of the institution.
So I wouldn't
be surprised if that were the case.
As this indictment clearly lays out.
Stephanie, Trump is
is not the only defendant today.
His aide,
while Nada, is also
part of the federal indictment.
It is rare, but we have seen
some people
who were part of Trump
world flip on Trump before.
Michael Cohen comes to mind right now.
But but as of this moment, not
he seems to be staying loyal to Trump.
Do you know anything about
their relationship?
Well, they were always
close in the White House.
Of course,
he was his usher and personal aide.
So he would be around him all the time.
More specifically,
when we traveled and do,
you know, go into the hotel rooms
and you get a lot of one on one time
with with the most powerful man
in the world
in a way that nobody else really does.
So I believe that they're very close.
But I think what people need
to remember is
and this was alluded
to in the previous interview
or the previous reporter
said he's got to be
what has got to be feeling trapped
even a little bit right now.
It is very expensive
to have to hire attorneys to fight.
Of course, the justice system,
but also to fight Donald Trump.
He's famous for people
keeping people up in litigation.
I mean, I have been
subject to it and it's terrifying.
And if you don't have
the finances to do it,
you're going to take any free lawyer
you can get.
And then another thing
I'll say is to leave
that circle has got to be scary
right now, too,
because it's all hands on deck
and the wagons are circling.
Sara, do you think
Nada is someone
Trump can trust
who is, you know, Enthrall,
who believes all the crazy election
lies, etc., etc..
Or is it possible that that he might flip
John Dean from Watergate?
Fame was on the show yesterday
and said that his message to not
it would be get your own lawyer
and start cooperating
so that you don't have to go down
with the ship.
I don't know, Walt, not personally.
So I can't speak to where his mind is
and how supportive
he is of everything
Trump says
or does with the election lies
and things like that.
But I do agree with that advice.
I think if we know anything
about Donald Trump,
loyalty is a one way street with him.
He demands it from everyone
but gives it to no one.
And so I hope that Walt
not is getting sound
advice from his loved ones
around him to hire a lawyer
that is looking in
for his best interests
rather than Trump's best interests.
And that's typically what happens
when you have a Trump paid lawyer.
For example, you look at Cassidy
Hutchinson,
one of the key witnesses
in the January six committee.
She had a Trump lawyer at first,
and they were encouraging her
to do things to help out Trump,
not to help out her.
One of the things
I'm wondering
for both of you
and I'll start with you,
Stephanie, has to do with your reaction
to the indictment,
the description of how Trump behaved,
bringing these boxes,
showing off,
according to the indictment,
classified information
to just people in the room with him
seemingly to push back on accusations
against him
or to impress them
telling aides to lie,
according to the indictment,
about turning over the documents
to the FBI, etc..
Was there anything in there
that surprised you and and why?
That's the big question. Why?
Why did Donald Trump
not just give these documents back?
He would have avoided all of this.
Stephanie?
Well, my
short answer is no, not any of it
surprised me at all.
Rang true.
Even, you know, the
why don't
we just take those documents out?
It wouldn't be a problem, right?
That's so him
And then,
you know, I saw him all the time.
The public saw him all the time.
Think about
when we were looking at,
you know, information about China
at Mar a Lago.
And South Korea in North Korea.
I mean, he talks about it all the time.
Why didn't he give them back?
It's because he thinks
those are his
he's like a child
holding on to his little toy train.
And nobody's going to take it from him.
My reaction is I'm very upset,
especially when I saw
those pictures, Jake.
You know,
I practically lived at Mar a Lago.
And so some of those
those places that I saw, I was
I mean, I was even surprised for Trump
that they could have been
so, so careless with those documents.
We heard some just.
I'll go to Sara in a second.
But we heard Congressman
Byron Donalds today
and also Speaker McCarthy
saying, Stephanie,
know,
the bathroom door is lock
and you guys are making
too big a deal out of this
we don't you know
there are 33 bathrooms in at Mar a Lago.
Stephanie, as somebody who spent
a lot of time in Mar
a Lago, is that is that right
Well, there are a lot of bathrooms.
You're in guest rooms.
That bathroom
particularly was also a room
that guest would play bridge
and poker in.
And so I guarantee
when there were guests
in that room, that door wasn't locked.
And most specifically,
the stage in the ballroom,
that's the one that really got me
a ballroom is right next
to a pool where all of the guests are.
And it's got,
I think, four doors
that none were usually locked.
And it was sitting on a stage
right out in the open.
So you know,
I understand
that they're trying
to defend Donald Trump,
but there's absolutely no defense
for the way this was stored.
And Sara
Matthews, your reaction to the indictment
and your answer to my question, why
Why would he do this?
I think that this indictment
kind of perfectly encapsulates
Donald Trump in a way
that he would think
that these documents were his
he called them my boxes.
He didn't think that
he needed to give them back.
And that's
what's so disturbing
about this indictment is
he could have avoided this.
It's 100% self inflicted.
If he had just returned the documents
when asked,
then he wouldn't be finding himself
in this situation.
Sara Matthews and Stephanie
Grisham, as always,
thank you so much for your perspective
and your insight. Appreciate it.