>>> SOMETHING HAPPENED TONIGHT IN THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN
THAT WE’VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE
NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.
IN A PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN
HISTORY.
HISTORY. JUST HAPPENED IN THE LAST HOUR
I HOPE MOST OF YOU SAW IT.
WE’RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IT, AN
OPENLY GAY PRESIDENTIAL
CANDIDATE BEING ASKED BY AN
OPENLY GAY TV INTERVIEWER ABOUT
THE DIFFERENCES IN THEIR DEEPLY
PERSONAL EXPERIENCES OF COMING
OUT.
OUT. >> I WILL ACKNOWLEDGE AT THE
OUTSET THAT THIS IS AN AWKWARD
QUESTION
QUESTION I WAS A RHODES SCHOLAR, TOO.
I WENT UP IN 1995, YOU WIN THE
UP A DECADE LATER.
I WAS THE FIRST OPENLY GALE
AMERICAN RHODES COL SCHOLAR.
I HAD COME OUT IN COLLEGE AND
APPLIED FOR THE SCHOLARSHIP AS
AN OPENLY GAY PROCESS.
IT CAME UP IN THE PROCESS AND I
LEARNED I WAS THE FERS AMERICAN
EVER OUT
EVER OUT BUT THAT WAS A DECADE BEFORE
YOU.
YOU. YOU WENT THROUGH COLLEGE AND
THEN THE RHODES SCHOLARSHIP
PROCESS AND GETTING THE
SCHOLARSHIP AND GOING TO WORK
FOR McKIN ZI AND JOINING THE
NAVY AND DEPLOYING TO
AFGHANISTAN AND COMING HOME AND
RUNNING FOR MAYOR IN YOUR
HOMETOWN AND GETTING ELECTED
BEFORE YOU CAME OUT AT THE AGE
OF 33.
OF 33. >> YEAH.
>> YEAH. >> AND I BRING THIS UP AND I
ACKNOWLEDGE IT’S A DIFFICULT
QUESTION NOT BECAUSE IT’S BAD
THAT YOU DIDN’T COME OUT TILL
YOU WERE 33 BUT I THINK IT WOULD
HAVE KILLED ME TO BE CLOSETED
FOR THAT LONG.
I JUST THINK ABOUT WHAT IT TAKES
AS A HUMAN BEING TO KNOW
SOMETHING AND TO HAVE TO
BIFURCATE YOUR PUBLIC LIFE AND
FOR YOU TO HAVE HAD ALL OF THOSE
DIFFICULT TRANSITIONS AND
EXPERIENCES AND AIMING AS HIGH
AS YOU WERE AND NOT COMING OUT
TILL YOUR EARLY 30s, I WONDER IF
THAT WAS HURTFUL TO YOU.
IF IT HURT YOU TO DO IT.
>> IT WAS HARD
IT WAS REALLY HARD
>> COMING OUT IS HARD BUT BEING
IN THE CLOSET IS HARDER.
>> YEAH, THAT’S WHAT I MEAN.
IF WAS AND IT WASN’T
IT TOOK ME PLENTY OF TIME TO
COME OUT TO MYSELF
I DID NOT THE WAY YOU DID OR THE
WAY MY HUSBAND DID FIGURE IT OUT
AT A CERTAIN AGE
I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE
THERE WERE PLENTY OF INDICATIONS
I COULD POINT BACK AND YEAH,
THIS KID’S GAY
I GUESS I NEEDED TO NOT BE
THERE’S THIS IS WAR THAT BREAKS
OUT I THINK INSIDE A LOT OF
PEOPLE WHEN THEY REALIZE THAT
THEY MIGHT BE SOMETHING THEY’RE
AFRAID OF.
AFRAID OF. AND IT TOOK ME A VERY LONG TIME
TO RESOLVE THAT.
>> I HOPE YOU SAW THE FULL
INTERVIEW.
INTERVIEW. IT WILL BE AVAILABLE ONLINE.
AND AFTER A BREAK, A I SHALL
MOODY MILLS WILL JOIN TO US
DISCUSS THAT IS HICK MOMENT IN
>>> IT WAS HARD. IT WAS REALLY HARD
>> COMING OUT IS HARD BUT BEING
IN THE CLOSET IS HARDER.
>> THAT’S WHAT I MEAN.
IT WAS AND IT WASN’T
IT TOOK ME PLENTY OF TIME TO
COME IT OUT TO MYSELF.
I DID NOT THE WAY YOU DID OR THE
WAY MY HUSBAND DID FIGURE OUT AT
SUCH AN EARLY AGE.
>> JOINING OUR DISCUSSION
DEMOCRAT STRATEGIST AISHA MOODIE
MILLS.
MILLS. THIS WAS AN EXCHANGE WE’VE NEVER
SEEN IN PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN
INTERVIEWING
INTERVIEWING I TALKED TO RACHEL ABOUT IT.
SHE SAID IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR
HER TO BRING UP AND ALSO SAID
THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO THINK
SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE BROUGHT IT
UP
UP WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THIS
EXCHANGE
EXCHANGE >> I ACTUALLY APPRECIATED THE
FACT THAT SHE BROUGHT IT UP.
SO AS AN OUTLESBIAN MYSELF AND
FUNNY, FIRST TIME I MET MAYOR
PETE I WAS THE PRESENT CEO OF
THE LGBTQ VICTORY FUND
AND AT THAT TIME, HE HAD JUST
COME OUT
COME OUT SO I GOT TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT
THAT
THAT LET ME TELL YOU COMING OUT IS
THE MOST PERSONAL AND FRETFUL
FOR MANY PEOPLE EXPERIENCES THAT
WE WILL EVER ENCOUNTER
SO NO ONE CAN CAST JUDGMENT ON
THE PROCESS AROUND IT.
I DO APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT
SHE BROUGHT IT UP TO TRY TO GET
A SENSE OF HOW AUTHENTIC IS HE
WAS HE JUST TRYING TO -- WAS HE
IN THE CLOSET BECAUSE HE WAS
AMBITIOUS OR WAS HE GRAPPLING
WITH SOMETHING
WITH SOMETHING I THINK THE WAY HE RESPONDED AND
SHARED INTIMATELY AND PERSONALLY
THAT I HAD A BIT OF FEAR, I
DIDN’T QUITE KNOW WHO I WAS, I
THINK THAT ALL OF US COULD
PROBABLY RELATE TO GROWING UP
AND THEN REALIZING AT SOME POINT
THAT MAYBE WE’RE NOT EXACTLY WHO
WE THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO BE
AND TRYING TO RECONCILE THAT IS
CHALLENGING.
CHALLENGING. IMAGINE THAT WHEN IT COMES TO
YOUR SEXUALITY WHEN IT’S ABOUT
YOU REALIZING YOU’RE IN LOVE
WITH AND ATTRACTED TO THE TYPE
OF PERSON THAT YOU MIGHT NOT
HAVE EXPECTED.
HAVE EXPECTED. IT’S A LOT
IT’S A LOT
I APPRECIATE RACHEL ASKING IT.
I THINK IT WAS VERY MUCH IN
BOUNDS TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION
AND FOR HER TO ALSO SHARE AND
THEN I THINK MAYOR PETE HANDLED
IT WELL AND I APPRECIATE THE
FACT THAT HE WAS VERY AUTHENTIC
IN HIS RESPONSE.
>> YEAH, I WAS WATCHING THE
INTERVIEW AND THERE WAS A LOT OF
FAMILIAR GROUND IN IT.
IF YOU’VE LISTENED TO HIM SPEAK
A LOT AND THERE WERE A LOT OF
AREAS WHERE HE WAS DOING
VARIATIONS OF THINGS HE’S SAID
BEFORE
BEFORE BUT THIS WAS CLEARLY SOMETHING
THAT HE, OBVIOUSLY, DIDN’T KNOW
IT WAS COMING.
RACHEL EVEN FELT YOU COULD TELL
SHE WAS A LITTLE AWKWARD
BRINGING IT UP
BUT IT WAS AS WE PUT IT HER
BURNING QUESTION
BURNING QUESTION CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT AS
SOMEONE WHO IS SO PUBLICLY
IDENTIFYING AS A GAY CANDIDATE
AND A GAY MAN MARRIED TO A MAN
THAT THIS WOULD PROVOKE A SET OF
QUESTIONS, THIS WOULD -- THIS
WOULD INSPIRE A SET OF QUESTIONS
THAT MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE BE
ASKED?
ASKED? >> FOR SURE.
FOR SURE
FOR SURE FROM BOTH THE LGBTQ AS WELL AS
NOT LGBTQ PEOPLE.
>> IT WOULD NEVER HAVE OCCURRED
TO ME TO ASK THAT QUESTION
RIGHT?
RIGHT? IT WASN’T MY BURNING QUESTION.
IT WAS RACHEL’S BURNING QUESTION
BECAUSE OF COURSE, SHE HAD BEEN
THROUGH THAT EXPERIENCE AND
THAT’S WHAT MAKES IT AN
IMPORTANT QUESTION FOR PEOPLE.
>> FOR SURE.
>> TO HAVE BEEN THROUGH THAT
EXPERIENCE.
EXPERIENCE. >> FOR SURE.
WE WANT TO KNOW PEOPLE AND
CONNECT WITH THEM AND THEIR
DEEPEST SELVES IN ORDER TO TRUST
THEM
THEM I THINK THAT’S WHAT SHE WAS
GETTING AT
GETTING AT WE REALLY DO AT LEAST FOR ME
PERSONALLY, I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT
THE PEOPLE AND THEIR INTEGRITY
AND WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN AND
THEIR VALUES AND HOW THEY’VE
COME TO HAVE THE VALUES THEY
HAVE THROUGH THEIR LIFE
EXPERIENCE
EXPERIENCE I TALK ABOUT IDENTITY POLITICS
OFTEN AND GENDER AND SEX AND
IT’S NOT ABOUT CONSTITUENCIES
AND BASES FOR THE DEMOCRATIC
PARTY.
PARTY. BUT BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT THE
BEST LEADERS ARE THE LEADERS WHO
SHOW UP IN THE WAY THAT THEY SEE
THE WORLD THROUGH AN AUTHENTIC
LENS THAT IS ULTIMATELY ABOUT
THEIR LIVED EXPERIENCE
AND TO THE EXTENT THAT HE’S
LEANING INTO THAT RACHEL’S
PULLING THAT OUT OF HIM TO OTHER
CANDIDATES IN THE FIELD, THEY
ARE GOING TO BE CALLED INTO
QUESTION WHO ARE YOU, WHY DO YOU
BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE AND
WHAT’S YOUR PERSONAL STORY
AROUND THAT.
AROUND THAT. I THOUGHT IT WAS GREAT WE GOT
SOME OF THAT PERSONAL STORY.
>> ALL OF MY QUESTIONS ARE
POLICY BECAUSE I HAVE KNOWN SO
MANY POLITICIANS AND I KNOW HOW
MANY WALLS OF GUARD THEY HAVE UP
AROUND THEM.
AROUND THEM. I DON’T EVEN ATTEMPT TO
PENETRATE THEM
PENETRATE THEM I DON’T CARE WHAT YOU ARE AS A
HUMAN BEING BECAUSE I DON’T
THINK I CAN FIND THAT OUT ON TV.
I DON’T THINK I HAVE THE TOOLS
BUT WHAT I FELT I SAW IN THAT
MOMENT WAS RACHEL REACHING IN
THERE AND FINDING SOMETHING FOR
US AND THAT YOU KNOW, PETE
BUTTIGIEG THEN DELIVERED WE
WOULDN’T HAVE FOUND IN ANY OTHER
INTERVIEW.
INTERVIEW. >> I TALKED TO HIM AFTERWARDS,
TOO.
TOO. >> YOU DID.
>> HE WAS SURPRISED.
NOT SHOCKED AND TAKEN ABACK SO
MUCH AS I SAID HEY, YOU DID A
GREAT JOB.
GREAT JOB. HE WAS SURPRISED AND WHAT DID
YOU THINK.
YOU THINK. >> I THOUGHT IT WAS WONDERFUL
AND CHARISMATIC AND I WOULD
IMAGINE A BIT CATHARTIC BECAUSE
WHEN YOU SPEND YOUR LIFE.
>> WHAT DID HE SAY
>> KIND OF LIKE NODDED
HE’S BEEN ON THIS JOURNEY SINCE
2005 OF COMING OUT
THERE IS A RELIEF THAT HAPPENS
WHEN YOU CAN SHOW UP AS WHO YOU
ARE, I DIDN’T COME OUT TILL I
WAS IN MY PROBABLY LATE 20s I
WOULD SAY.
WOULD SAY. AND SO FROM A PROFESSIONAL
CONTEXT, I ENDED UP COMING OUT
ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE
"WASHINGTON POST."
"WASHINGTON POST." MY WIFE AND I.
WE MIGHT AS WELL BUST OUT.
ALL MY COLLEAGUES ARE LIKE MY
GOD, I HAD NO IDEA
NOW I KNOW YOU AND FEEL MORE
CONNECTED TO YOU
MY RELATIONSHIPS ACTUALLY
STRENGTHENED
STRENGTHENED THERE’S SOMETHING THAT’S
CATHARTIC ABOUT THAT, SOMETHING
WARM AND A CONNECTION THAT
HAPPENS.
HAPPENS. >> I’VE BEEN ON THAT SIDE OF IT
WHERE A FRIEND HAS COME IT OUT
TO ME AND WE JUST BECAME MUCH
CLOSER BECAUSE OF IT
I REALIZED IN THAT MOMENT THAT
AT SOME LEVEL, THERE WAS SOME
PART OF ME THAT WAS FEELING LIED
TO OVER A PERIOD OF TIME THE
PREVIOUS COUPLE OF YEARS AND
SUDDENLY THAT WAS ALL LIFTED
SO YOU’VE HEARD AND SEEN PETE
BOOT BUTTIGIEG MORE THAN MOST OF
US AND HIS CONFIDENCE.
WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF HIS
CONFIDENCE IN HANDLING THAT
MOMENT WITH RACHEL
DID IT SEEM LIKE HE WAS STILL
HOLDING THAT CONFIDENT POSITION
HE ALWAYS HOLDS?
>> I THINK HE IS A VERY, VERY
SMART MAN, CLEARLY
HE HAS A LOT OF PASSION AND A
LOT OF CONVICTION AND KNOWS WHAT
HE BELIEVES IN AND KNOWS WHAT HE
WANTS TO DO FOR AMERICA.
THAT WILL COMPLETELY COMES
ACROSS IN ALL FACETS OF HIS
CONVERSATION
CONVERSATION SO WHESTSN WAS TALKING ABOUT POL
IDEAS AND HOW HE WAS GOING TO
CHALLENGE THE STATUS QUO I
THOUGHT EVERYTHING HE TALKED
ABOUT HE HAD A LOT OF CONFIDENCE
IN BECAUSE THESE ARE THINGS HE
HAS REALLY STUDIED, REALLY PUT
HIS POSITIONS TOGETHER OVER TIME
AND ANALYZED
AND ANALYZED AND SO IT SEEMS TO ME THAT HE’S
NOT SOMEONE THAT’S A LITTLE
NERVOUS OFF THE CUFF BECAUSE HE
IS A VERY, VERY THOUGHTFUL AND
CALCULATED CANDIDATE.
CALCULATED CANDIDATE. >> THE "NEW YORK TIMES"
REPORTING TODAY HE HAS BEEN
DELIBERATELY AVOIDING POLICY
SPECS AND IS TRYING TO SET A
NARRATIVE AND A STORY ABOUT
HIMSELF FIRST.
HIMSELF FIRST. IS THAT WHAT YOU EXPECTED HIM TO
DO AS A CAMPAIGNER, AND DO YOU
EXPECT SINCE YOU’VE KNOWN HIM SO
WELL TO HEAR THE ELIZABETH
WARREN LEVEL POLICY SPECS WE’VE
BEEN GETTING FROM HER?
>> THE BEAUTY OF WHERE HE IS
RIGHT NOW I THINK HIS CAMPAIGN
WOULD SAY IS HE’S STILL
INTRODUCING HIMSELF TO ALL OF
US
US SO NO ONE KNEW WHO MAYOR PETE
WAS.
WAS. NOW HE’S JUST SHOWN UP
SURELY THERE’S AN INTRODUCTION
PROCESS THAT HAS TO HAPPEN
UNFORTUNATELY, MOST OF THE OTHER
CANDIDATES HAVE A RECORD
WE ALREADY KNOW WHO THEY ARE
THEY’RE IN THE PROCESS OF BEING
CRITIQUED WHERE HE’S STILL IN
THE PROCESS OF SAYING HELLO.
I DO BELIEVE THOUGH THAT WHEN
THE SUMMER COMES AND HE GETS ON
THE STAGE AND THERE’S REAL
SUBSTANTIVE POLICY CONVERSATIONS
HAPPENING, HE’S GOING TO HAVE TO
ACCOUNT FOR THAT AND TALK ABOUT
WHAT HE’S DONE, WHAT HE WILL DO.
RIGHT NOW, HE’S GOING ON AN
INTRODUCTION TOUR, RIGHT
AND THAT IS PLAYING TO HIS
FAVOR, BUT I THINK THE HONEYMOON