>>> WELCOME BACK, EVERYONE.
SPLITTING UP AND STAYING
FRIENDS.
TWO COUPLES THAT PROVE IT'S
POSSIBLE.
THEY TOOK UNCONVENTIONAL ROUTES.
FIRST, COLLEGE SWEET HEARTS
MARRIED FOR 11 YEARS AND HAVE
ONE SON, GAVIN.
LIKE MANY COUPLES THEY DRIFTED
APART AND EVENTUALLY SEPARATED.
THEY ARE TRYING SOMETHING A BIT
UNCONVENTIONAL CALLED NESTING.
WATCH.
WHEN ADAM AND DEBBIE MET THEIR
FRESHMAN ENGINEER IN COLLEGE,
SPARKS FLEW.
>> MY MOM AND I WERE MOVING INTO
THE COLLEGE.
WE WERE BRINGING UP A
TELEVISION.
ALL OF A SUDDEN THE STAIRWELL
FROM THE FLOOR ABOVE US, ADAM
POPS DOWN.
HE'S DRESSED IN A BATHROBE AND
SUNGLASSES AND I THINK THAT WAS
IT.
HE SAYS, HELLO, HOLDS THE DOOR
OPEN FOR US.
I TURNED BACK TO MY MOM AND
SAID, I THINK I'M GOING TO LIKE
LIVING HERE.
>> THEY BEGAN DATING, FELL IN
LOVE, AND GOT MARRIED IN 2004
WHEN THEY WERE 24 YEARS OLD.
>> YOU GET A PERMA GRAM, HOLD IT
TOGETHER, TRY NOT TO CRY AND
HOLD IT TOGETHER IN THE CHURCH.
IT WAS BEAUTIFUL.
SHE WAS BEAUTIFUL.
>> IN FEBRUARY 2010, THE HAPPILY
MARRIED COUPLE WELCOMED THEIR
SON, GAVIN.
>> THIS IS MY SON.
THIS IS SOMEBODY, I'M NOT JUST
DEBBIE ANYMORE, NOT JUST A
SISTER, THIS PERSON, SOMEBODY'S
FRIEND, I'M A MOM.
IT WAS ONE OF THE BEST THINGS
THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED.
>> DESPITE THE JOY GAVIN BROUGHT
TO THEIR LIVES, DEBBIE AND ADAM
NOTICED A DIVIDE IN THEIR
RELATIONSHIP.
>> GET TO A POINT WHERE YOU'RE
LIKE YOU DON'T LIKE THE SAME
THINGS.
YOU'VE BOTH CHANGED.
YOU'RE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE THAT
YOU WERE.
YOU'RE JUST ROOMMATES THAT ARE
RAISING THIS KID TOGETHER.
>> IN 2015, THE TWO FILED FOR
SEPARATION.
>> I REMEMBER LOOKING AT HIM,
AND I WAS CRYING.
I SAID I DON'T THINK THAT I CAN
DO THIS ANYMORE.
I THINK WE WOULD BE BETTER OFF
AS FRIENDS.
>> EVEN THOUGH THEIR MARRIAGE
WAS ENDING, THEYANT WHATTED
GAVIN TO BE THE PRIORITY.
>> WE DON'T WANT GAVIN TO MOVE
FROM HOUSE TO HOUSE, LUGGAGE TO
LUGGAGE, ONE WEEK ON OR ONE WEEK
OFF OR WHATEVER THE SCHEDULE IS,
WHAT'S CONSIDERED THE NORMAL
SEPARATION SHUFFLE.
>> SO ADAM AND DEBBIE DECIDED TO
TRY A LIVING ARRANGEMENT CALLED
NESTING WHERE THEY WOULD ROTATE
TIME AT THE HOUSE INSTEAD OF
GAVIN.
>> WE REALIZE IT'S NOT FOR
EVERYBODY BUT IT WORKS FOR US
AND IT'S WHAT'S REALLY BEST FOR
GAVIN.
>> PLEASE WELCOME DEBBIE AND
ADAM.
IT'S SO AMAZING BECAUSE WE
STARTED THE SHOW WITH THE
ANGELINA AND BRAD DIVORCE.
THAT'S GOTTEN SO UGLY.
HERE YOU ARE, YOU TEARED UP
WATCHING THAT PIECE.
YOU LEANED OVER AND GRABBED HER
LEG SUPPORTIVE.
JUST YOUR ABILITY TO DIVORCE AND
REMAIN FRIENDS IS STELLAR.
BUT THE WAY YOU'VE CO-PARENTED,
CHOSEN TO CO-PARENT YOUR SON IS
EXTRAORDINARY.
IS IT TRUE IT ALL STARTED WITH
GWYNETH PALTROW.
>> YEAH, BETWEEN GWYNETH AND
JENNIFER GARNER, THESE CELEBRITY
COUPLES, IT'S EASIER FOR THEM TO
DO THAT BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE
MEANS TO DO THAT.
THAT'S HOW IT STARTED.
THAT'S HOW I PLANTED THE SEED.
>> YOU GOT THE IDEA.
>> EVERYBODY OUT THERE IS
THINKING WHAT?
WHAT ABOUT THE SLEEPING
ARRANGEMENTS?
WHAT ABOUT WHEN YOU MEET
SOMEBODY ELSE?
LET'S START WITH THAT, HOW DOES
IT MAKE WITH THE SLEEPING
ARRANGEMENTS.
>> WE HAVE SEPARATE ROOMS AT
EACH HOUSE.
THE HOUSE AT GAVIN'S SHE HAS THE
MASTER, I HAVE A ROOM.
AT THE APARTMENT, IT'S A
MULTIFAMILY HOUSE, AN APARTMENT,
WE EACH HAVE SEPARATE BEDROOMS.
>> YOU HAVE ANOTHER HOUSE, A
MULTIFAMILY HOUSE, AND THERE'S
ONE LEVEL THAT'S AN APARTMENT
THAT HAS MORE THAN ONE BEDROOM.
>> YES.
>> YOU SHARE THAT, TOO.
>> WE'RE NEVER THERE AT THE SAME
TIME.
SO IT'S KIND OF THAT OPPORTUNITY
FOR US WHEN WE'RE NOT WITH OUR
SON TO REALLY HAVE SOME TIME TO
OURSELVES.
>> YOU'RE LIKE CLARK KENT AND
SUPERMAN, NEVER IN THE SAME
PLACE AT THE SAME TIME.
>> EXACTLY.
>> IS IT WEIRD?
I KNOW YOU HAVE A SERIOUS
GIRLFRIEND NOW.
>> YES.
>> IS IT WEIRD WHEN YOU GO TO
THE HOUSE AND YOU'RE SERIOUS
GIRLFRIEND AND YOU GO BACK IN
AND YOU'RE LIKE, THEY WERE HERE.
THEY HAVE BEEN HERE.
IS THAT WEIRD?
>> INITIALLY WHEN WE FIRST
STARTED THE ARRANGEMENT, IT FELT
VERY STRANGE TO BE AWAY FROM THE
HOME YOU'VE LIVED IN TOGETHER
FOR HOWEVER MANY YEARS.
I HAD A HARD TIME AT FIRST
GETTING USED TO THE FACT THAT
I'M NOT AROUND MY SON ALL THE
TIME ANYMORE.
WHEN I DID COME HOME, IT BECAME
THIS KIND OF YOU NEED A GOOD
FIVE OR TEN MINUTES TO CHECK IN
WITH EACH OTHER.
HOW IS GAVIN DOING?
YOU'VE MISSED OUT ON THAT STUFF.
IT WASN'T UNTIL ABOUT A YEAR
INTO OUR ARRANGEMENT THAT I
STARTED TO FEEL LIKE I ACTUALLY
LOOKED FORWARD TO MY TIME WITH
MY SON, BUT I ALSO LOOKED
FORWARD TO THAT TIME THAT I
SPEND ON MY OWN, TOO.
>> ME TIME.
>> WE DIDN'T HAVE TOO MUCH TIME.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE RULES WE SET
UP, TO NOT HAVE ANYBODY AT THE
HOUSE WITH GAVIN.
WE DIDN'T WANT TO INTRODUCE
PEOPLE TO GAVIN TOO EARLY.
>> LIKE A GIRLFRIEND.
>> ANY OF THE EXTRACURRICULARS
WERE AT THE APARTMENT AS OPPOSED
TO GAVIN'S HOUSE.
>> YOU WERE PRETTY OPEN ABOUT
THE FACT YOU WERE TOGETHER FOR
ALL THESE YEARS.
HOW MUCH WEIGHT DID YOU LOSE?
>> 80 POUNDS.
>> MAY I ASK YOU, DID THAT
AFFECT YOUR MARRIAGE?
DID THAT AFFECT YOUR MARRIAGE?
>> YEAH, IT WAS THE IMPETUS.
I STOPPED DRINKING, HAVEN'T HAD
A DROP SINCE.
I LOST 10 POUNDS.
I WANTED TO BE ABLE TO KEEP UP
WITH MY TWO-YEAR-OLD SON.
I COULDN'T DO THAT THE WAY I
WAS.
I STARTED TO CHANGE AND WORK
OUT.
I WAS PREVIOUSLY RATHER THIN AND
THEN BECAME FAT AND THEN GOT IT
BACK.
SO IT WASN'T TOO FOREIGN TO ME.
IT TOOK A YEAR AND A HALF TO DO.
ONCE YOU SEE THAT OUTER CHANGE,
THEN YOU START THINKING, WHAT
ELSE CAN I CHANGE ABOUT MYSELF
TO BETTER MYSELF.
AND THAT'S WHEN THE DIVIDE
STARTED HAPPENING.
>> OKAY.
THIS IS WHEN MANY WOMEN ARE
SITTING AT HOME, OKAY, I DON'T
LIKE HIM.
WE DON'T WANT OUR HUSBANDS TO
LOSE A BUNCH OF WEIGHT AND LEAVE
US.
BUT PART OF YOUR STORY IS YOUR
COMING TO TERMS WITH YOUR OWN
ROLE IN THE MARRIAGE ENDING.
CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT?
THAT'S A KEY TO THE REASON YOU
GUYS ARE ABLE TO DO THIS.
>> I THINK WHEN ADAM AND I
STARTED COUNSELING, I WAS
FLOORED.
I HAD NO IDEA.
I DIDN'T EXPECT IT.
I DIDN'T THINK THERE WAS
ANYTHING WE NEEDED TO TALK TO
WITH A COUNSELOR.
I VERY MUCH WAS LIKE, OKAY, I'LL
GO.
IT WAS GREAT ADAM SAID, WE NEED
TO DO THIS.
I HAVE TO GIVE HIM CREDIT TO SAY
HE RECOGNIZED SOMETHING WAS
WRONG.
WHEN YOU'RE IN COUNSELING AND
START TO REALLY SIT DOWN AND
LISTEN TO ANOTHER PERSON'S KIND
OF THEIR ASSESSMENT OF HOW THEY
FEEL YOU ARE DOING AND HOW THE
MARRIAGE IS GOING, YOU CAN'T
REALLY HIDE BEHIND -- MY PARENTS
HAVE BEEN MARRIED 45 YEARS.
I NEVER EXPECTED TO BE SITTING
IN SOMEONE'S ROOM TALKING ABOUT
MY MARRIAGE AND FINDING OUT THAT
THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT ADAM
WISHES I DID THAT I DIDN'T OR
THAT I USED TO DO AND MAYBE I
DON'T DO ANYMORE.
THAT WAS REALLY DIFFICULT TO
HEAR.
>> NOT JUST BLAMING IT ALL ON
HIM.
>> RIGHT.
>> TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR
YOUR OWN PART.
>> YES.
I VERY MUCH HAD TO -- WE TALKED
A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IF WE DECIDE
WE STAY TOGETHER, WHAT WILL WE
WORK ON.
IF WE DECIDE WE'RE NOT GOING TO
STAY TOGETHER ANYMORE, THERE'S
STILL THAT VERY MUCH FEELING OF
RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER AND WE
CARE ABOUT EACH OTHER.
JUST BECAUSE WE'RE NOT HUSBAND
AND WIFE ANYMORE DOESN'T MEAN
YOU SUDDENLY STOP CARING ABOUT
THIS PERSON WHO WAS MY BEST
FRIEND.
>> IT DOES IN SOME CASES.
MIRACULOUSLY NOT IN YOURS.
OF COURSE THERE'S THE WRINKLE OF
THE OTHER PEOPLE COMING INTO
YOUR LIFE, LIKE NEW FAMILIES
EVENTUALLY COMING INTO YOUR
LIFE.
HOW DO YOU HANDLE
>>> WE'RE BACK WITH ADAM AND
DEBBIE, A COUPLE WHO ARE LEGALLY
SEPARATED YET DOING SOMETHING
CALLED NESTING FOR THE SAKE OF
THEIR SON GAVIN.
ADAM'S GIRLFRIEND, MARY, IS ALSO
WITH US.
SHE'S HERE IN THE AUDIENCE.
MARY, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE,
TOO.
I'LL GET TO YOU IN A SECOND.
CAN I ASK YOU HOW -- I KNOW YOUR
PARENTS WERE DIVORCED, YOU
DIDN'T WANT GAVIN TO BE SHUTTLED
BACK AND FORTH.
HOW IS GAVIN -- HE WAS FOUR WHEN
YOU SEPARATED.
NOW HE'S HOW OLD?
>> EIGHT.
>> HOW HAS HE -- WHAT QUESTIONS
HAS HE HAD FOR YOU TWO?
>> IT PROGRESSES.
IT HELPS HE'S A BOY.
THEY ARE NOT AS CURIOUS ABOUT
RELATIONSHIPS.
>> WHERE IS MY BASKETBALL.
>> WHO CAN I GET PIZZA FROM
TONIGHT.
>> HIS QUESTIONS MIGHT BE AT
BEDTIME WHEN HE'S THINKING A
LITTLE BIT MORE AND WHERE ARE
YOU GOING?
WHAT ARE YOU DOING TONIGHT?
HE HASN'T GOT INTO TOO MUCH OF
THE WHY.
>> IS IT TRUE IN GAVIN'S HOME,
AS YOU CALL IT, THAT YOU STILL
HAVE YOUR WEDDING PICTURE UP ON
THE MANTEL.
>> WHY?
>> WE'RE LAZY.
>> I THINK IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR
US TO MAKE SURE THAT GAVIN
UNDERSTOOD HIS PARENTS WHEN WE
DID TAKE OUR VOWS TOGETHER, WE
INTENDED FOR THAT TO BE FOREVER.
AND EVEN THOUGH THAT DIDN'T WORK
OUT, WE STILL VERY MUCH WANT TO
CELEBRATE THAT RELATIONSHIP AND
THAT KIND OF FOUNDATION OF WE
LOVED EACH OTHER, WE WERE BEST
FRIENDS.
WE CARE VERY MUCH ABOUT EACH
OTHER STILL.
I WANT HIM TO KNOW, THAT'S NOT
SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO KIND OF
DISMISS.
IF HE EVER ASKS A QUESTION
ABOUT, WE'RE GOING TO EVADE.
>> IT STILL MATTERS.
>> ALL RIGHT, MARY.
FOR THE WOMEN OUT THERE THINKING
WHY WOULD YOU WILLINGLY WALK
INTO THIS SITUATION, IS IT
WEIRD?
IS IT HARD?
>> NOW IT'S NOT, NO.
NOW THAT I'VE MET DEBBIE AND
GAVIN, EVERYTHING IS COPACETIC.
I MEAN, WE DROVE DOWN TOGETHER
FROM ROCHESTER SINGING "THREE'S
COMPANY" SONGS.
>> THE THREE OF YOU IN A CAR FOR
5 1/2 HOURS?
>> YES.
>> YES, I FEEL THE SAME.
>> OKAY.
IS IT TRUE, THEY HAVE TAKEN
FAMILY VACATIONS TOGETHER, JUST
THE THREE OF THEM THAT YOU
HAVEN'T BEEN PART OF.
>> YES.
>> HOW DOES THAT FEEL?
>> IT WAS HARD AT THE TIME
BECAUSE IS GOING THROUGH CANCER
TREATMENTS.
I WAS NOT FEELING MY BEST OR
LOOKING MY BEST.
YOU JUST GET TO THAT POINT WHERE
YOU'RE DOWN.
AS I SAID, I HADN'T YET MET
DEBBIE AND GAVIN.
SO INITIALLY IT WAS DIFFICULT.
BUT THEN AS I SAW HOW AWESOME
THE SITUATION IS FOR THEM AND
THEIR FAMILY AND WHEN I
GRADUALLY WAS ABLE TO SORT OF
ENTER THE SCENE, IT BECAME
EASIER.
>> YOU'RE OKAY NOW?
>> YEAH, WE'RE GREAT.
>> I'VE GOT TO ASK YOU, SO IT
WORKS WELL NOW.
WHAT IF YOU BOTH REMARRY AND
HAVE ADDITIONAL CHILDREN?
IT CAN'T CONTINUE, RIGHT?
THAT'S THE PLAN.
>> THAT'S THE BIG QUESTION, WHAT
ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH ANOTHER
HOUSE IF YOU REMARRY AND WANT TO
MOVE IN WITH SOMEBODY ELSE.
MARRIAGE ISN'T FOR ME.
I CAN SAY THAT --
>> YOU'RE STILL TECHNICALLY
MARRIED NOW.
YOU'RE STILL MARRIED TO DEBBIE.
>> YES.
>> IS THERE GOING TO BE A
DIVORCE?
>> ONLY IF SHE WANTS TO GET
REMARRIED.
>> WHEN WE INITIALLY TALKED
ABOUT NESTING, WE SAID THIS
COULD BE SOMETHING SHORT-TERM.
WE IMMEDIATELY KNEW WE WEREN'T
GOING TO GO THE ROUTE OF WE BOTH
FOUND APARTMENTS THAT MAYBE
AREN'T EXACTLY WHAT WE'D LOVE TO
HAVE AND GAVIN IS SHUTTLED BACK
AND FORTH.
WHEN IT BECAME TIME IF ONE OF US
IS IN A SERIOUS RELATIONSHIP AND
WE WERE CONSIDERING MARRIAGE
WITH THAT PERSON, WE WOULD HAVE
TO DISCUSS IT TOGETHER.
IT CANNOT BE A DECISION I MAKE
SOLELY, HEY, BY THE WAY, I'M
GOING TO BUY YOU OUT OF THE
HOUSE BECAUSE NOW I'M GOING TO
MOVE IN WITH MY FIANCEE.
>> YOU'LL FIGURE IT OUT.
BASICALLY YOU'RE SAYING THIS IS
THE PLAN NOW BUT YOU'LL WORK IT
OUT.
>> YES.
>> YOU'VE GIVEN ANOTHER EXAMPLE
OF HOW THIS CAN BE DONE IN A WAY
THAT WORKS, I ASSUME, VERY WELL
FOR GAVIN.
THE INCONVENIENCE IS ON YOU AND
NOT YOUR CHILD, WHICH I HAVE TO