PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
ALABAMA SCHOOL OF LAW.
SHES AN MSNBC LEGAL
CONTRIBUTOR.
JOYCE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
JOINING US TONIGHT.
I HAVE TO SAY, READING THESE
LEGAL FILINGS TODAY WAS LIKE
READING ABOUT WHAT THE FILINGS
WOULD HAVE BEEN IF TIMOTHY McVAY
WOULD HAVE BEEN CAUGHT IN
ADVANCE.
>> I THINK THATS EXACTLY THE
FEELING THAT YOU GET HERE.
THIS IS A BIG ARSENAL THAT THESE
TWO HAD AMASSED.
THEYD THEY GOT FIVE PIPE BOMBS
AND FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.
THEY GOT 45 TO 50 GUNS AND
THOUSANDS OF ROUNDS OF
AMMUNITION.
IF THIS IS HOW YOU ENTERTAIN
YOURSELF, WELL, THAT MEANS THAT
YOURE A CRIMINAL.
AND TO YOUR POINT, TIM McVAY,
WHO IS THE TOUCH STONE FOR SO
MANY OF THESE PEOPLE, THEY AUTO
ALL USE THE ANARCHISTS COOK
BOOK TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE
THEIR DEVICES AND HOW TO TARGET
THEIR LOCATIONS, AND THEY ALL
LOOK BACK TO TIMOTHY McVAY WITH
THIS SINGULAR FOCUS ON USING
VIOLENCE TO OVERTHROW THE
GOVERNMENT AND USING THEIR OWN
ACTS OF VIOLENCE TO RADICALIZE
OTHER PEOPLE TO THEIR CAUSE.
>> I JUST WANT TO PUT ON THE
SCREEN AN IMAGE THAT WAS
INCLUDED IN THE CRIMINAL
COMPLAINT FILED IN COURT OF THIS
WHITE PRIVILEGE CARD THAT IAN
ROGERS HAD.
HE HAD THIS IN HIS HOME.
THIS WAS PART OF WHAT WAS
COLLECTED IN THE RAID, THE WHITE
PRIVILEGE CARD TRUMPS
EVERYTHING.
THIS IS WHAT THESE PEOPLE
BELIEVE IN.
JOYCE, SEEMS TO ME THAT AS
WITNESSES AGAINST AND ABOUT
THEMSELVES, THEY ARE VERY CLEAR.
>> THEY DONT MAKE ANY BONES
ABOUT THEIR IDEOLOGY.
THEY DONT MAKE ANY BONES ABOUT
THEIR ALLEGIANCE TO THE FORMER
PRESIDENT.
THE DIFFICULT ISSUE HERE --
LAWRENCE, YOURE RIGHT TO SAY IT
MIGHT NOT BE ENTANGLED IN THE
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM -- IS
NOT JUST WHAT THEIR MOTIVATION
IS, BUT ALSO WHETHER OR NOT THE
FORMER PRESIDENT HOLDS SOME
SHARE OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR
THEIR CONDUCT, NOT IN THE
OBVIOUS SENSE, BECAUSE WE CAN
ALL LOOK AT THIS ONGOING COURSE
OF CONDUCT AND TRUMPS FAILURE
TO MODERATE HIS RHETORIC OVER
TIME AFTER HE KNEW TIME AND TIME
AGAIN PEOPLE WERE MOTIVATED TO
VIOLENCE BY HIS WORDS, BUT
WHETHER THERE WILL EVER BE ANY
LEGAL ACCOUNTABILITY IS STILL
THE OPEN QUESTION HERE.
>> YEAH.
I MEAN, SO THE FBI CAUGHT THESE
GUYS AND CAUGHT THEM IN ADVANCE
OF WHAT THEY WERE PLOTTING TO
DO.
AND THAT JUST FEELS LUCKY,
JOYCE, I HAVE TO SAY.
IT JUST FEELS LIKE GREAT WORK,
FANTASTIC THAT THEY DID THAT.
BUT ITS HARD TO BELIEVE THAT
THESE WERE THE ONLY TWO AND THAT
DEMOCRATIC BUILDING IN
SACRAMENTO IS THE ONLY BUILDING
THAT ANYBODY LIKE THIS MIGHT BE
TARGETING.
>> THE FBI HAS A REALLY TOUGH
JOB HERE PLAYING DEFENSE, AND
IVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS WORK
FOR MANY YEARS.
YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE
ARRESTS IN THIS CASE BEFORE
THEYRE ACTUALLY ABLE TO BLOW UP
THE DEMOCRATIC INSIDE
SACRAMENTO.
AND THEN YOU GOT TO GO BACK OUT
THERE THE NEXT DAY AND WORRY THE
NEXT GUYS THAT ARE COMING AT YOU
WITH GUNS AND BOMBS.
ITS A TOUGH JOB.
ITS ENCOURAGING THAT THE FBI
CAUGHT THESE TWO.
THERE SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN NEWLY
ENHANCED RECOGNITION AT THE
BUREAU AND IN U.S. ATTORNEYS
OFFICES OF THE IMPORTANCE OF
FOCUSING ON DOMESTIC TERRORISM.
ITS FAR TOO EASY FOR US TO
FOCUS ON FOREIGN TERRORISM AT
THE EXPENSE OF DOMESTIC
TERRORISM.
IF YOU HAD FOUND A JIHADIST WITH
THIS KIND OF FIRE POWER WITH
FIVE PIPE BOMBS, EVERYONE WOULD
HAVE BEEN UP IN ARMS, BUT WE
HAVE A REGRETTABLE TENDENCY TO
GIVE THE WHITE SUPREMACISTS A
PASS.
MAYBE THEY LOOK A LITTLE BIT TOO
MUCH LIKE US OR A LITTLE BIT TOO
MUCH LIKE LAW FIRM.
THEY DONT SEEM AS THREATENING.
BUT THESE PEOPLE POSE A DEADLY