OF PRESIDENT TRUMP ARE NO MORE.
>> ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR
REPORTING.
>>> MORE ON THE MAN WHO
PRESIDENT BIDEN MEETS WITH IN
ABOUT ONE HOUR FROM NOW.
STAFF WRITER FOR THE ATLANTIC
MAGAZINE, TOM McTAIT IS JOINING
US NOW.
HIS LATEST PIECE IS TITLED THE
MINISTER OF CHAOS BORIS JOHNSON
KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING."
ALSO JOINING US IS THE CHAIR OF THE EDITORIAL BOARD AND EDITOR
THE EDITORIAL BOARD AND EDITOR
AT LARGE AT THE FINANCIAL TIMES,
JILLIAN
GILLIAN TETT AND THE AUTHOR OF
THIS BOOK.
WE WILL GET TO THAT IN A MOMENT.
>>> TOM, WHAT DOES BORIS JOHNSON
KNOW WHAT IS HE DOING?
>> WELL, HE KNOWS HOW TO BE
POPULAR.
HE KNOWS HOW TO WIN.
HE KNOWS HOW TO COMBAT THE
EXPECTATIONS.
THAT THE IS KEY TO BORIS
JOHNSON.
HE IS A UNIQUE POLITICIAN AND
CERTAINLY HERE IN BRITAIN, HE
HAS THIS ABILITY TO CONNECT TO
PEOPLE -- A LITTLE BIT OF TIME
THROUGH MAKING JOKES WHENEVER HE
SEES PEOPLE AND CONSTANTLY
PUTTING THEM AT EASE AND PEOPLE
SEEM TO LIKE THAT OR ENOUGH
PEOPLE SEEM TO LIKE THAT TO GIVE
HIM THE KIND OF MANTLE THAT HE
HAS NOW.
OBVIOUSLY, LIKE DONALD TRUMP IN
THE UNITED STATES, THERE IS A
WHOLE HOST OF PEOPLE IN THE UK
WHO DESPISE THE MAN.
SO HE HAS THIS VERY SIMILAR KIND
OF LOVE/HATE RELATIONSHIP THAT
YOU MIGHT SOMEBODY LIKE TRUMP
MIGHT HAVE IN THE UNITED STATES.
>> YOU ACTUALLY ASKED THE PRIME
MINISTER ABOUT COMPARISONS TO
TRUMP AND YOU WRITE IN YOUR
PIECE. QUOTE.
SOMETHING THAT IS LOST, WHICH IS
CONTROL.
TOM, I GUESS WE CAN CONTINUE
WITH THIS.
AS THE PRESIDENT WORKS TO MEET
TODAY AND SORT OF NAVIGATE THIS
MEETING, YOU KNOW, HE IS THE
PRESIDENT OF A COUNTRY THAT IS
TRYING TO PUT OR AT LEAST ON HIS
SIDE OF THE AISLE, TRYING TO PUT
TRUMP BEHIND US.
>> YEAH.
AND, ACTUALLY, BORIS JOHNSON HAS
A VERY SIMILAR JOB HERE IN THE
UK IN THAT WHAT HE IS TRYING TO
SAY TO THE WORLD AND UNITED
STATES AND BRITAIN IS THAT
BRITAIN IS BACK AND NOT CAUGHT
IN THE PERIOD BETWEEN 2019.
HE IS SAYING LOOK, IM NOT THE
GUY YOU THINK I AM.
I HAVE POLICIES TO TACKLE
CLIMATE CHANGE AND LIBERAL ON
IMMIGRATION REFORM.
BRITAIN HAS ALIGNED HIMSELF WITH
JOE BIDEN POLICIES ON VIRTUALLY
EFG.
WHAT BRITAIN IS TRYING TO DO ON
BORIS JOHNSON WE ARE CLOSER TO
YOU THAN GERMANY AND FRANCE AND
OTHERS YOU MIGHT SEE AS BEING
MORE LIBERAL.
HE HAS A TASK SIMILAR IN BIDEN
WE ARE BACK AS A COUNTRY AND
FORGET WHAT IS GOING ON THE LAST
FEW YEARS.
THERE IS A CHEMISTRY, CAN THEY
STRIKE A CHEMISTRY OR NOT?
>> BORIS JOHNSON WENT THROUGH
THE BEGINNING OF COVID AND TO
TOMS POINT IT WAS CHAOTIC.
BRITAINS EARLY YEAR WITH COVID
WAS AWFUL.
BUT HES NOW HAD A VERY
SUCCESSFUL VACCINE ROLLOUT
PROGRAM.
HAVE BRITS SORT OF FORGIVEN
JOHNSON FOR THE CHAOS AND LOSSES
IN THE FIRST PART OF THE
PANDEMIC BECAUSE THE VACCINE
PROGRAM HAS GONE WELL?
HAS THAT STRENGTHENED JONS HAND
IN THE COUNTRY ON THE WHOLE
QUESTION OF BREXIT?
>> BORIS JOHNSON TRAJECTORY
EXPLAINS EXACTLY WHY CULTURE
MATTERS, WHICH IS A THEME OF MY
NEW BOOK, BECAUSE YOU COULDNT
PREDICT BORIS JOHNSONS CAREER
WITH AN A.I. ROBOT OR BIG DATA
SET.
HE REALLY HAS TO WHERE HE IS BY
CANDIDLY READING THE CULTURE AND
TAPPING INTO THE CULTURES THAT
BRITISH APPRECIATE LIKE A SENSE
OF HUMOR OR SELF-DEPRECATION AND
MANAGING TO COME OUT AGAINST THE
ODDS AND COME OUT MORE POPULAR
THAN BEFORE AND VERY MUCH LIKE
HUGH GRANT KIND TAKING THE HUGH
GRANT DISPLAYED IN THAT TIME
AGO.
HE ALSO REFLECTS SOMETHING ELSE
WHICH SHOWS WHY CULTURE MATTERS
WHICH IS A QUESTION OF POLITICAL
TRIBALISM.
BECAUSE HE, LIKE BORIS
JOHNSON -- LIKE DONALD TRUMP,
VERY MUCH SERVED THE KINDS OF
ANGER TOWARDS THE ELITE AND HE
DID SO IN A VERY CANNY WAY.
THE BIG QUESTION NOW, AS YOU
LOOK TO THE TWO CHIEFS MEETING
IS WHETHER THE POLITICAL LEADERS
WILL FIND A WAY, BOTH PRESIDENT
BIDEN AND BORIS JOHNSON TO
ACTUALLY -- THAT POPULACE RAGE
AND GET SOMETHING DONE IN AN
EFFECTIVE WAY AND WORK TOGETHER
IN SPITE OF ALL OF THESE SHOTS
WE HAVE HAD IN THE SYSTEM THE
LAST YEAR.
>> GILLIAN, LETS DIVE INTO YOUR
BOOK.
WHAT IS ANTHO VISION?
>> ITS A WORLD THAT IS
COMPLETELY DOMINATED BY AR
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.
IT IS WHAT IT IS TO BE HUMAN AND
WHY CULTURE MATTERS.
WE HAVE HAD A CRASH COURSE
LEARNING THIS THE LAST YEAR WITH
THE PANDEMIC.
THE REALITY IS THAT UNLESS WE
LOOK AT THOSE ISSUES, WE CANT
UNDERSTAND OURSELVES
PARTICULARLY WELL.
WE CANT UNDERSTAND PROBLEMS WE
ARE GRAPPLING WITH, WHETHER THAT
IS TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF THE
INFLATION DATA BECAUSE ITS NOT
THE MONEY OR ITS ALSO ABOUT
CULTURAL ATTITUDES BUT WE CANT
UNDERSTAND OTHER COUNTRIES.
IF THERE EVER WAS A TIME THAT
REALLY MATTERS IS A WORLD WE ARE
BOTH VERY GLOBALIZED AND EXPOSED
TO EACH OTHER ALL THE TIME AS WE
SAW IN THE PANDEMIC BUT ALSO
POLARIZED AND WE POLARIZE HERE
AT HOME AS WELL.
LOOK WHAT IS HAPPENING IN
CONGRESS.
RIGHT NOW.
MEMBERS OF CONGRESS COULD
CERTAINLY DO WITH A LESSON IN
SOME ANTRO VISION AND
APPRECIATION OF OTHER CULTURES
TO WORK OUT HOW TO WORK WITH
EACH OTHER ACROSS THE AISLE.
>> THAT IS BORIS JOHNSONS MAIN
JOB IS WORK WITH OTHER ACROSS
THE AISLE OR THE OCEAN.
BORIS JOHNSON IS SKILLED AT THE
THEATER OF OFFICE AND THE USE OF
LANGUAGE AND FLEWENCY HOW TO BE
A SEWMAN IN OFFICE.
DO YOU THINK -- I DONT KNOW
ABOUT HIS ATTENTION SPAN -- DO
YOU THINK HE TRULY BASICALLY
UNDERSTANDS THE VOLATILITY OF
NORTHERN IRELAND?
>> A GREAT QUESTION.
HE DOES -- HE FEELS IT.
HE FEELS SORT OF OWNERSHIP OVER
IT BECAUSE HE SIGNED THE DEAL
THAT IS CAUSING A TROUBLE IN
NORTHERN IRELAND RIGHT NOW.
HE LED THE BREXIT CAMPAIGN WHICH
HAS DESTABILIZED THE REGION.
I TRAVELED WITH HIM TO NORTHERN
IRELAND AND I SPOKE TO HIM ABOUT
IT.
HE UNDERSTANDS THE KIND OF DEEP
HISTORY OF A PLACE LIKE THAT AND
HOW ITS VERY DIFFICULT TO FIND
COMPROMISES THERE.
HE UNDERSTANDS THE VOLATILITY
AND HAS PEOPLE AROUND HIM FROM
NORTHERN IRELAND WHO TALK TO HIM
ABOUT IT REGULARLY.
LOOK.
HE IS AN ENGLISH CONSERVATIVE
POLITICIAN.
IN ENGLAND, YOU DO NOT SPEND
MUCH TIME THINKING ABOUT
NORTHERN IRELAND.
BORIS JOHNSON DOES NOT RELY ON
VOTES FROM NORTHERN IRELAND.
TO GET INTO POWER, HE DID A DEAL
WHICH TURNED OVER HIS CLOSEST
ALLIES FROM NORTHERN IRELAND.
SO THERE IS -- AS EVER WITH
BORIS JOHNSON A TENSION BETWEEN
HIS INTELLECTUAL UNDERSTANDING
AND CYNICISM YOU SEE HE WILL DO
DEALS AND HE WILL DO THINGS TO
GET POWER AND TO STAY IN POWER.
SO THAT IS THE TWO SIDES OF
BORIS JOHNSON YOU HAVE TO
UNDERSTAND ABOUT HIM.
>> THIS MEETING IS GOING TO BE
FASCINATING TODAY AND WE WILL BE
COVERING IT ALL DAY ON MSNBC.
TOM McTETTE THANK YOU AND
READING ABOUT THE MINISTER OF
CHAOS IN THE NEW ISSUE OF "THE
ATLANTIC."
GILLIAN, THANK YOU AS WELL.
GOOD TO SEE YOU.
YOUR NEW BOOK IS "ANTHR-VISION A
NEW WAY TO SEE IN BUSINESS AND