Would you ever find yourself so tired
that your comedy would shift meaner?
What's a Conan that's suffering
on burnout look like when you're stressed?
Well, everyone here in the room just, their souls just
left their bodies
I know. I mean maybe I should ask you guys
(Laughing)
That's like, you're sitting with Stalin and his politburo.
Yeah.
And you're saying, 'Hey Stalin
is there ever a time when you get a little grumpy
and what's that look like?'
And everyone else,
(laughing)
Bukharin, crew chef all these other
He's always happy. Always happy.
Always, always great.
Yeah. He's good guy.
Fun at party.
Never killed my wife.
Yeah. Well one time, but not second wife yet.
Maybe. We'll, Sona you can speak to this.
Cause you met me.
I'm a master of passive aggression.
Oh.
And so
(Laughing)
Yeah.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone do passive
aggressiveness like you.
And so it's, it's weird because I've been told it
can be quite funny.
Mhm
It's, it's to get, you know,
I was raised, you can't directly
confront anyone.
So I would
No
never say like, Nikki, you know, you just screwed
up and you're in big trouble.
I would never do that.
Why wouldn't you ever do that?
Because I just don't come from that culture.
What's the fear?
Oh, the fear is anger is toxic, and truth is toxic.
Yes.
So, um, when I was younger
or even into my teen years and early twenties
if I said something kind of like truthful around my parents
my mom would be like, Don't be mean.
Yes
Like, that's mean.
The truth is mean.
The truth is mean. - Yes.
So what happens is, I think we hyper develop, um,
This is my breakdown.
Every culture has their way of doing it.
But I think one of the reasons that Irish people
are funny is because it's all they'll allow themselves.
At least the branch I come from, we're not the type to say,
'Hey, I, I really didn't appreciate what you did in
there. That made me feel this way.
And it wasn't a good feeling.
So we need to talk about that'.
That's the last thing you would do.
Now, thank God I met Liza and we got married
because very early on she was like, 'This thing you're doing
(soft laughter)
I'm not loving it. What is it?
Is the real problem.'
And I'd go, 'Um, well I was- it was fun'.
'Yeah, it was kind of funny, but what, what is it really?
What's really going on here?'
And I'd go, 'You ate the last cupcake'.
And you wanted that cupcake.
Is that what you then say?
I was hoping that I could have that cupcake.
Wow.
I kind of was hoping I could have that cupcake.
(soft chuckles)
And, um, so anyway, but she's my wife.
The truth is mean
Yeah. She gets to, she gets to do that.
But that's scary to do even before she's your wife.
Because I have the same thing where I think
that I can't ever say anything critical
of someone else because then they'll just come back at me.
'Well, you are this'.
Yes.
And my biggest fear is 'You're ugly'.
I think that I, my, my therapist is always like
because I think some boy in fifth grade called me ugly if I
because I had an opinion
about something he said to me,
Yeah.
Well you're ugly. Shut up. You have buck teeth.
And so now I, I never ever criticize anyone
'cause I think they can always pull that card
or like the meanest thing that maybe not
it's not ugly anymore, but it's whatever I think
about myself that I think maybe other people haven't caught
onto. If I find out
that they've seen that and they know that, then I'm done.
And, and I'm so scared in a romantic relationship and I
I'm doing better at it in my own.
But in an early stages
of one confronting something and having them say,
I always just think they're gonna say
'Well that's the way I am.
So if you don't like it, then go'.
And either I have to put up with it
and then I'm just the one putting up
with things or I have to leave and I don't wanna do that.
So it's, it's easier for me to just say nothing.
I think the biggest thing that, and I can relate
to what you're saying on this because my issue is
if I'm gonna confront someone, I better be right.
Oh, I gotta be right.
And my biggest nightmare is saying, you know, if I
you know, said, 'Hey Nikki, I just don't like you,
you've been on this podcast three times and each time you've
been on the podcast, you've done this thing and you've
Oh, I'm already like
This is hypothetical hypotheticals
No, hypotheticals
It just feels real
That's, I almost was gonna, you know
turn to Gourley, but it would probably be something real.
(wheezing laughter)
Yeah, I was waiting
But I like you so much I can't even manufacture.
But if it were something, yeah
So, so what I'm saying is,
but but you know, you've come
on the podcast three times and each time you did such
and such, you might then say to me, a 'Conan
I've been on the podcast once'. And, and then I'm wrong.
And I would go into
what I think my people do is we keep score quietly.
So I don't want to confront you
because what if you have a really good comeback?
Yes.
And then I'm in it.
So what I'll do is say, 'Man, it really
it really bugs me every time Nikki's on the show
she brings up the fact that, you know
she saw my feet once and they're hideous.
I wasn't gonna do that again.
I know, I know.
And I've grotesque, grotesque features and I
I just really bugs me
and I wanna talk to her about it.
Instead I'll just like,
'She did it again, I'm just gonna keep track.
I'm gonna mark this down
Mhm.
and keep track'.
And then next time
in some imagined future, I'll confront her.
Now, if when you leave the room,
Gourley or Sona says,
'You know, did you notice that
I notice you got really tense at that one point
I'll be happy to tell them - [Nikki] Sure.
Why I'm miss I'm not happy with you.
And if they say, 'Well walk out there
and tell Nikki', I'd be like, 'Don't! Sh Sh Sh Sh!
Yes!
Quiet! Don't, don't, don't, don't!
Here she comes here she comes!'.
And so I think that's how I used to be.
Mhm.
I've gotten a lot better just chipping
away through, you know, therapy, cognitive therapy
wanting to be different, I think, which is the best thing.
Ooh. Tracing the thoughts.
Yeah. Tracing the thoughts.
I'm a big believer in, in cognitive therapy
because it's so logical, which is when you're panicking
write down on a sheet, on a legal pad, what is
it you're afraid will happen?
And then one of the things you'll write down is, well
I'm afraid that this person will say that I'm ugly.
And in that moment that feels real to you.
Walk away, 20 minutes later, come back. Look at the list
of things that you're really afraid, and you're gonna say
those are, those things are gonna look stupid to you.
Yeah.
You're gonna say, 'I'm not ugly,
I'm demonstratively a very attractive person.
So that's just stupid'.
Once you're removed from the thought for 25 30 minutes,
and then you see it written down on, on paper,
you see how empty it is.
You know, I'm afraid Conan won't speak to me.
Well no, that's he's not like that.
That's not gonna happen. I mean actually it could
(cheerful laughing)
No, I know.
And guess what?
You are right on the edge. But no.
And afraid. I wish.
(cheerful laughter)
Yeah. Gourley keeps trying to get back.
Damn it! I called him a dirty rotten nick.
And he still has me back.
(comical laughter)
Um, no. But anyway
That's interesting.
Looking at those thoughts leaving, are you just
leaving this, this list
of things out at, around your house,
(loud laughter)
For people to stumble and fall and face fears?
Yeah.
(loud laughter continues)
Sometimes I want people to find them
so I write down fake
Yes!
panic thoughts.
I'm too good a lover.
(loud laughter)
My penis is too big.
And hoping
that people will find it and go,
'Oh, you shouldn't be'.
(loud laughter)
Yeah. I, I think that that's, that's a good,
that's a good way
to looking at the thought, looking back on it
how ridiculous it is, because I know this all sounds
ridiculous in all these, these fears I have.
But it is interesting to be so scared of confrontation
and so scared to stand up for yourself unless you
know you're right.
Which is why I like, I really enjoy being vegan
because I just know I'm, it's the only thing I'm sure about.
I'm right about.
Mhm.
And it just, and I don't get, I'm not like one
of these people that will make you feel bad
about eating meat and I'm, I'm not like that. But I,
it is the one thing, the only thing maybe I'm certain of
that I'm right about. And that's why I like it
I have a thing I only eat meat that
committed a crime.
(Loud Laughter)
Great.
Yeah. I I there's a place that's a service
that will get you
Yes
a cow that trampled someone,
(loud laughter)
a pig that attacked a dog.
And, and so
Oh my God.
They're, they're tried,
they have a fair trial.
And they have representation and then they're
murdered.
I think, oh I would like that. I could stand
behind that.
Yeah. I love eggs, um.
Those are a little tricky because what did
the unborn egg do?
Yeah.
But I believe life begins at hatching.
Sometimes I think
(Loud Laughter)
maybe the, the, the animal that we are
eating it ate animals in a past life.
Yes!
So I'm paying for it.
No. My way, because I do love,
I love eating.
I'm a meat eater and I love meat.
Yeah, yeah. That's good.
So I just, I am very good at coming
and very imaginative
coming up with horrible things that
that cow did
Good.
You know, that that entitled me
to this wonderful steak.
Yeah.
And that works fine for me.
All of your, all the cows you eat are Hitler.
(Loud Laughter)
They're racist. I eat racist animals. So.
And conversely I look at a salad and go,
'That salad's done too much good in this world'.
Yes.
I can't take it out.
Oh my god.
Yeah.
That's
I must set it free.- [Gourley] Yes.
He's always setting his salads
free in the wilderness
and he doesn't understand
(wheezing laughter)
that they can't go anywhere.
Mm.
He's always like, 'Go salad. Go'
One day.
Live your own life
One day they'll like do it
Free range salads.
Yeah.