>>> NOW WE TURN TO A VERY IMPORTANT STORY AND A NEW
EXCLUSIVE SERIES.
EXCLUSIVE SERIES. JUSTICE FOR ALL WHERE "NBC
NIGHTLY NEWS" ANCHOR LESTER HOLT
EXPLORES SOME OF THE MOST
IMPORTANT ISSUES FACING CRIMINAL
JUSTICE REFORM INCLUDING STORIES
OF THE WRONGFULLY ACCUSED,
EXPLORING HOW MASS INCARCERATION
WORKS IN AMERICA TODAY AND
JUSTICE AT LARGE.
LESTER WENT AND EMBEDDED IN THE
LARGEST MAXIMUM SECURITY PRISON
IN THE U.S. SPENDING TWO NIGHTS
IN A CELL AT THE ANGOLA,
LOUISIANA, STATE PENITENTIARY.
>> Reporter: ANGOLA, OR THE
LOUISIANA STATE PENITENTIARY, IS
A FORMER SLAVE PLANTATION.
I SPENT THREE DAYS HERE.
ON THE INSIDE MY ACCESS WAS
VIRTUALLY UNRESTRICTED AND AT
TIMES I WAS NOT IN THE IMMEDIATE
SIGHT OF OFFICERS.
VERY FEW OF THE ROUGHLY 6,000
INMATES HERE LIVE BEHIND BARS AS
WE TRADITIONALLY THINK OF
PRISONS.
PRISONS. IN FACT, MOST OF THEM, ABOUT
80%, LIVE IN OPEN DORMS LIKE
THIS, BUNK BETS LIKE YOU WOULD
SEE IN A BARRACKS.
>> WE GOING TO GO DOWN THE TIER
HERE.
HERE. >> BUT FOR SECURITY REASONS I
WON’T BE STAYING IN A DORM.
INSTEAD, I’M BROUGHT TO THIS
CELL BLOCK RESERVED FOR HIGH
RISK OFFENDERS.
RISK OFFENDERS. IN MY CASE, A HIGH PROFILE
GUEST.
GUEST. >> CELL 121.
GO AHEAD AND CLOSE.
>> AS JOURNALISTS WE KNOW THAT
TO GET TO THE HEART OF SOMETHING
YOU HAVE TO GET INSIDE OF IT.
THE CLOSER YOU ARE TO SOMETHING
THE MORE IT IS REVEALED TO YOU.
>> AND WE ARE THRILLED TO BE
JOINED RIGHT NOW BY LESTER HOLT,
ANCHOR OF "NBC NIGHTLY NEWS."
THANKS SO MUCH FOR MAKING TIME
FOR US.
FOR US. >> SURE, ARI.
HAPPY TO BE HERE.
>> WHAT WAS IMPORTANT TO YOU
ABOUT REPORTING THE STORY THIS
WAY?
WAY? AND WHAT DID YOU LEARN ON THE
INSIDE?
INSIDE? >> WELL, IT’S A STORY THAT’S
TYPICALLY TOLD FROM THE OUTSIDE
IN AND WE SIMPLY REVERSED IT.
I WANTED TO TELL IT FROM THE
INSIDE OUT AND HAVE INTIMATE
CONVERSATIONS WITH THESE GUYS,
AND TO DO THAT WE USED
TECHNIQUES LIKE NO ARTIFICIAL
LIGHTING AND THE CAMERAS WERE
KEPT QUITE FAR BACK BUT WE
WANTED TO UNDERSTAND THIS ISSUE
OF MASS INCARCERATION AND HOW
DIFFERENT STATES AND DIFFERENT
PRISONS ARE TRYING TO MAKE IT
BETTER.
BETTER. HERE THEY’VE GOT, YOU KNOW, SOME
PROGRAMS THEY HAVE ADDED AND
THEY’RE TRYING TO GIVE REASON
FOR HOPE IN A PLACE WHERE
THERE’S NOT A LOT OF IT.
A LOT OF THESE GUYS ARE THERE ON
LIFE SENTENCES WITHOUT THE
POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK YOU
AND I KNOW FROM INTERVIEWING
PEOPLE IS NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU
LISTEN, AN INTERVIEW IS AN
ARTIFICIALLY CONSTRUCTED SET OF
TIME.
TIME. YOU SPENT MORE TIME THERE.
DID YOU PICK UP ANYTHING IN THE
MOOD, IN THE ENVIRONMENT, IN THE
HOPELESSNESS THAT SOME PEOPLE
FEEL IN THIS TYPE OF SYSTEM?
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. I THINK I WENT IN WITH A SENSE
THAT THIS WOULD BE FILLED WITH
BITTER PEOPLE.
BITTER PEOPLE. THEIR LIVES HIT A DEAD END WITH
CHOICES THEY MADE.
WHAT I FOUND WAS A LOT OF
THOUGHTFUL INDIVIDUALS.
THOUGHTFUL INDIVIDUALS. YOU’VE BEEN IN A LOT OF PRISONS
AND TALKED TO A LOT OF INMATES.
YOU KNOW SOMETIMES THEY’LL TELL
YOU WHAT THEY THINK YOU WANT TO
HEAR OR WHAT MAY BE TO THEIR
ADVANTAGE SO THERE WERE MOMENTS
I SIMPLY DIDN’T KNOW IF I WAS
BEING CONNED BUT I SPOKE TO
ENOUGH OF THESE GUYS TO GET THIS
SENSE OF THEY’RE LOOKING FOR
SOME FORM OF REDEMPTION.
MANY OF THEM, I SAID, DO YOU
DESERVE PAROLE?
DESERVE PAROLE? I DON’T DESERVE PAROLE.
I WOULD LIKE TO BE RELEASED.
THEY ARE COMING TO ACKNOWLEDGE
THEIR CRIMES.
THEIR CRIMES. THEY LOOK YOU IN THE EYE AND
SAY, LOOK, IN SOME CASES I’M IN
PRISON FOR SOMETHING I DID WHEN
I WAS 15, I’M 45, I’M 50.
THAT GETS TO THAT QUESTION, WHAT
DO WE DO ABOUT VIOLENT OFFENDERS
BUT THOSE WHO MAY NOT -- MAY NO
LONGER POSE A THREAT TO SOCIETY?
>> THE OTHER FAULT LINE HERE IS
RACE AND THE WAY THE SYSTEM HAS
WORKED IN RACIALLY DISPARATE AND
SOMETIMES RACIST WAYS OVER THE
DECADES.
DECADES. IT HAS GOTTEN A LITTLE MORE
ATTENTION LATELY.
ATTENTION LATELY. I WONDER WHAT YOU THINK IN
LOOKING AT THAT AND THE WAY THAT
PUNITIVE JUSTICE IS HANDED OUT.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. >> GO AHEAD.
>> YOU CAN’T ESCAPE THE LEGACY
AND, YOU KNOW, BRIGHTER MINDS
HAVE LOOKED INTO THIS ISSUE OF
THE LINE FROM SLAVERY IN THIS
COUNTRY INTO OUR -- HOW OUR
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM HAS
TURNED OUT.
TURNED OUT. I WILL TELL YOU ANECDOTALLY THAT
ANGOLA IS A FARM AND THIS IS
HARD LABOR.
HARD LABOR. ONE OF THE JOBS THERE IS TO GO
OUT IN THE FIELDS AND PICK
PRODUCE.
PRODUCE. I WENT OUT ON A TRACTOR WITH
INMATES AND WE WERE PICKING
CARROTS AND I LOOKED AROUND AND
I SAID TO THEM, I SAID,
EVERYBODY LOOKS LIKE US, MEANING
PEOPLE OF COLOR.
AND WE WERE BEING UNDER THE
WATCHFUL EYE OF GUARDS WITH GUNS
ON HORSEBACKS.
ON HORSEBACKS. THE IMAGERY, IT CERTAINLY WASN’T
LOST ON ME.
AND I TALKED TO PRISON OFFICIALS
ABOUT THAT.
ABOUT THAT. YOU KNOW, THEY MAKE THE
ARGUMENT, LOOK, THESE GUYS ARE
GETTING PAID, ALBEIT PENNIES PER
HOUR BUT THE FOOD IS CONSUMED AT
THE PRISON AND THAT VIRTUALLY
ANY PIECE OF FARM LAND IN
LOUISIANA WAS AT ONE TIME A
PLANTATION AS THIS WAS BUT, YOU
KNOW, I COULDN’T ESCAPE THAT
STARK IMAGERY AND THE HISTORY WE
KNOW IN THAT PART OF THE
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. >> THAT’S VERY STRIKING.
THE LAST THING I WANTED TO ASK
YOU ABOUT WAS IN YOUR WORK ON
THIS AND IN YOUR WRITING ABOUT
IT YOU TOUCH ON HOW IN THE ROLE
OF A JOURNALIST YOU’VE OBSERVED
ACTUAL EXECUTIONS.
ACTUAL EXECUTIONS. THAT’S NOT SOMETHING MOST PEOPLE
SEE WITH THEIR OWN EYES OUTSIDE
OF LAW ENFORCEMENT OR PEOPLE
CAUGHT UP IN THOSE SITUATIONS.
WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM THAT?
HOW DO YOU TAKE THAT TO TELLING
THIS STORY TO AMERICANS AS WE DO
DEBATE HOW WE DO JUSTICE.
>> THAT WAS BACK IN THE ’90s I
WAS A WITNESS, A MEDIA WITNESS
WHICH THEY HAD IN AN EXECUTION.
IT WAS A LETHAL INJECTION.
I ALWAYS REMEMBER IN THIS, YOU
KNOW, KIND OF A CHILLY BLOCK
HOUSE, I CALL IT BLOCK HOUSE, IT
WAS BRICK, THE CURTAIN OPENS UP.
THERE IS THE INMATE ALL WIRED UP
AND THE WARDEN AND HE HAS A
HEADSET ON.
HEADSET ON. IT’S ALL VERY OFFICIAL.
I REMEMBER THIS MOMENT OF
WANTING TO STAND UP, WAIT A
SECOND.
SECOND. WHAT ARE WE ABOUT TO DO HERE?
I SAY THAT NOT AS GIVING YOU MY
OPINION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ON
DEATH PENALTY, BUT IT MADE ME
THINK ABOUT HOW WE ADMINISTER
JUSTICE AND WHAT DO WE GET FOR
IT?
IT? BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, HE WAS
EXECUTED THAT DAY FOR, BY THE
WAY, A HORRIBLE CRIME.
IS THE WORLD ANY SAFER?
WHAT DID WE GET FOR IT AS A
SOCIETY?
SOCIETY? THAT KIND OF STARTED THOSE
THOUGHTS WHICH I DIDN’T REALLY
PLAY DOWN ON UNTIL LATER NOW
THAT IT’S A TOPIC THAT PEOPLE
REALLY SEEM READY TO DISCUSS AND
IT’S GOT BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR
THE CONVERSATION.
THE CONVERSATION. BUT CERTAINLY YOU CAN WITNESS
SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND NOT HAVE
IT SHAPE HOW YOU VIEW THE
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. IT IS A FASCINATING WAY THAT
YOU’RE APPROACHING THE STORY SO
YOU’RE KNOWN TO ALL OF OUR