this is democracy Now democracynow.org
the Warren peace report I'm Amy Goodman
we're on the road in Minneapolis
Minnesota headed to Cambridge
Massachusetts then to New Jersey as we
turn though now to Brazil where the
Senate has forged ahead with impeachment
proceedings against President J rusf
despite an earlier move by the Interim
House speaker to derail the process the
previous house Speaker Eduardo CA had
led the bid to ausf before he himself
was suspended over corruption well on
Monday his replacement W deer marau
sought to anull the lower House's vote
in favor of impeachment charges citing
procedural flaws but Senate head renan
ceros insisted a vote on Rusev's fate in
the upper house would still move
forward no monocratic decision can
superimpose a collective decision
especially when the decision was taken
with the highest form of collectiveness
in the house in full plenary and
furthermore with verified Quorum the
Brazilian speaker later reversed his bid
to an know the vote against the
president res sending it in the middle
of the night the Brazilian Senate is
scheduled to vote Wednesday on whether
it'll try Rusev for violating budgetary
laws if it decides in favor of doing
this she will immediately be suspended
for up to six months as the trial
proceeds her potential replacement vice
president Michelle Tamer was ordered
last week to pay a fine for violating
campaign Finance limits on Friday
president lusth vowed to continue
fighting I will stay here fighting
fighting because I am the proof of this
Injustice they are condemning an
innocent person and there is nothing
more serious than condemning an innocent
person despite a massive corruption
Scandal president Rusev herself has not
been found guilty of any financial
impropriety and the Attorney General's
office has called for the impeachment
charges against gusf to be dropped
saying there's no legal basis for the
proceedings well last week got a chance
to speak to intercepts Glenn Greenwald
the Pitzer prizewinning join journalist
who joined us from De Janeiro Brazil
where he lives I began by asking Glenn
to explain what's happening there it's
actually remarkable Amy because somebody
who grew up in the United States um a
democracy that is a couple of centuries
old you do sort of assume that once you
live in a democracy where the leaders
are chosen Through The Ballot Box um as
opposed to just being imposed through
force that it's always going to be that
way you kind of take it for granted and
being here in Brazil uh where a majority
of the country actually was born into a
a military dictatorship one that
overthrew the democratically elected
government in 1964 and then proceeded to
impose military rule on the country for
the next 21 years very brutal and and
oppressive uh military rule um I'm I'm
living in a country here that's actually
a very young and therefore fragile
democracy um although it's become this
kind of inspiring model for the world it
has really thrived under its young
democracy it has this really vibrant
political culture it has made extremely
impressive strides in terms of lifting
people out of poverty and giving them
opportunity and creating mature
Democratic institutions and to sit here
and witness the utter dismantling of a
democracy which is exactly what is
taking place by the richest and most
powerful people in the society using
their media organs that masquerade as
journalistic Outlets but are which in
fact propaganda Chandal for a tiny
number of extremely rich families almost
all of whom supported that coup and then
the the the military dictatorship is
really disturbing and and frightening to
see and I think that the ultimate
question now
becomes once you know Brazilians have
had their attention focused for so long
on the president on Dill marev who it is
true has become extremely unpopular
largely due to economic suffering here
in the country and a lack of political
Charisma and lack of political skill on
her part and so up until now everyone's
been focused on Dilma and getting Dilma
out of office but now the realization is
starting to sink in that what this
really is about is two things one
installing as president and um the the
controlling faction in Brazilia a group
of people who believe in very Pro bus
neoliberal ideology that want to
dismantle core social programs that have
been constructed over the last 20 years
and which on its own could never be
accepted by the majority of of Brazilian
voters and secondly what it's about is
empowering the very people in Brazilia
who actually are corrupt who actually
have stolen money huge amounts of money
and squandered it away in foreign bank
accounts and used it to buy second and
third and fourth homes and names of
other people the actually corrupt
thieves in Brazilia it's about
empowering them so they can protect
themselves and kill the corruption
investigation and once people really
start to focus on that as they're doing
now you're starting to see civil dis
obedience instability increasingly
violent protest the real question is
going to become how is the population of
this country going to react when they
realize that democracy has been taken
out of their
hands so is Jill marus going to make
it I think the only thing that can Savor
at this point is if Brazilian Elites
realize that there's going to be too
high of a cost to be paid by removing
her and then installing the very corrupt
implicated neoliberal non- entity of a
vice president Michelle Tammer which is
their current plan if they come to
believe that following through on their
plan will cause lots of public protest
um disruption instability especially as
the Olympics uh is approaching in a way
that could damage the this this plan to
reattach foreign Capital back into
Brazil I I think they're going to have
second thoughts about it but short of
that um I think they are dead set on
removing her I think the votes will be
there in the Senate because you have the
combination of the ideological factor of
of enough members of the the rightwing
in Brazil who hate PT and have long-
hated PT and wanted out of office
combined with this self-interest on the
part of corrupt people in in the Senate
and and the lower house who believe that
removing Dilma is the way to end the
corruption Scandal to give country this
cathartic sense that has been resolved
and then to be able to kill the
investigation so this combination this
really toxic combination of ideology and
self-interest combined with what I
cannot emphasize enough is the central
role of Brazil's oligarchical media in
inciting and inflaming all of this and
not allowing a plurality of opinion to
be heard in this Relentless um parade of
of of of of pro- opposition propaganda
that combination I think has made her
removal inevitable unless the public
makes clear that they won't tolerate it
and Eduardo CA the third in Aline to be
president Eduardo COA is the person most
responsible for the impeachment
proceeding taking place in the house
he's the one who made the decision to
allow it to happen and then he in one of
the most Shameless acts ever seen in
modern politics actually presided over
the impeachment proceeding even though
eduard ouna and as you described him you
kind kind of understated the the the not
just the level of his corruption but the
proof of it he was actually caught the
investigators found Swiss bank accounts
that he owns and controls with millions
of dollars in them um he has no source
of of Wealth Beyond corruption and
bribery he doesn't have businesses he
he's been in in public life for a long
time he lied last year when he testified
to Congressional investigators and said
he has no foreign bank accounts in his
name and then they were subsequently
discovered you have government
informants who have testified that
actually the amount of bribes he's
received and kickbacks he's received is
in the many many many millions of
dollars tens of millions of dollars not
just the $5 million they found in the
Swiss bank account and so he has become
the kind of face um of the not just
hypocrisy but the the deceit at the
heart of this impeachment effort in that
house proceeding that a lot of people
around the world watched one member of
Congress after the next who are accused
of and implicated by the corruption
investigation stood up to eduward okuna
and said Mr Speaker Mr President I vote
Yes to impeach Delma Rusev because we
can't tolerate corruption speaking to
somebody with millions of dollars and
bribes in Swiss bank accounts and so
people have started to realize
internationally but also here in Brazil
that although this impeachment process
has been sold has been pitched as a way
of punishing corruption its real goal
Beyond empowering neoliberals and
Goldman Sachs and foreign hedge funds
the real goal is to protect corruption
that's poitz a prizewinning journalist
Glenn Greenwald of The Intercept
speaking last week in Rio De Janeiro
Brazil that does it for a show I'll be
speaking tonight at the First Parish
church meeting house in Cambridge at
6:30 then Wednesday night in Monclair
New Jersey at congregation shamuna on
Thursday night at Barnes & Noble Union
Square in New York and Friday I'll be in
Washington DC at Plymouth Congregational
Church then for the weekend it's on on
Saturday to Portland and Bangor Maine
Sunday to Bar Harbor main um and
democracy now has job openings video
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internship program check out
democracynow.org special thanks to
Dennis moan and our crew I'm Amy Goodman
thanks so much for joining us