LOU: JURORS IN THE PAUL MANAFORT
OVER THE WEEKEND.
THE SECOND DAY OF DELIBERATION
ENDS AND SPHAIS TWO BEGINS
MONDAY.
JUDGE T.S. ELLIS CITING THREATS
HE RECEIVED DURING THE COURSE OF
THE TRIAL.
USING THOSE THREATS AT LEAST IN
PART TO DENY REQUESTS TO RELEASE
ALTERNATES.
JOINING ME, GREGG JARRETT,
AUTHOR OF THE NUMBER ONE NEW
YORK TRIALS BEST SELLER "THE
RUSSIA HOAX, THE ELICIT SCHEME
TO FRAME DONALD TRUMP AND CLEAR
HILLARY CLINTON."
THIS MARKETING -- I LIKE TALKING
BOOKS.
CONTINUED SUCCESS WITH THE BOOK.
I'M FASCINATED BY THIS TRIAL.
IT HAS BENCH ADO ABOUT WHAT
LOOKS TO BE AN EVENT NO ONE
SEEMS TO UNDERSTAND WHICH WAY
IT'S GOING TO GO.
HAVE WE HAD ANY CLUES THE NEXT
THE JURORS HAVE FOUR QUESTIONS
TO BE ANSWERED BY THE JUDGE.
THREE OF THEM DEALT WITH TAX AND
BANKING.
DEFINITION OF REASONABLE DOUBT.
AND THAT IS THE DREAM OF DEFENSE
ATTORNEYS WHEN THEY HEAR A
QUESTION LIKE THAT.
THESE LAWYERS MOUNTED A
REASONABLE DOUBT DEFENSE.
DO THAT, DON'T THEY?
GREGG: NOT NECESSARILY.
SOME OF THEM TAKE AN ACTIVE ROLE
AND CALL DEFENSE WITNESSES.
HERE THEY FOCUSED ENTIRELY ON
CROSS-EXAMINATION AND REASONABLE
DOUBT.
THE JUDGE CAN'T ANSWER THE
QUESTION BECAUSE THERE IS NO
LEGAL STANDARD OF REASONABLE
DEFENSE ATTORNEYS TRY TO HELP
THEM ALONG AND ROUTINELY SAY --
LOU: YOU ARE SAYING THE JUDGE
INVITED THEM TO USE THEIR
IMAGINATIONS.
GREGG: USE YOUR OWN JUDGMENT.
IT'S UP TO THEM.
IT'S NOT UP TO THE JUDGE.
YOU CAN'T QUANTIFY IT.
99% PROOF.
DEFENSE LAWYERS SAY LADIES AND
GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY, IT'S NOT
MAYBE GUILT, IT'S NOT PROBABLY
GUILT, IT'S NOT LIKELY GUILT,
IT'S -- IF YOU HAVE DOUBT THAT
IS BASED ON A REASONABLE AMOUNT
OF SUSPICION OR EVIDENCE IN THE
CASE --
THAT DOES MAKE IT PROSECUTION'S
JOB EXTRAORDINARILY HARD.
GREGG: IT'S AN EXTREMELY HIGH
STANDARD AND IT'S THE JOB OF A
DEFENSE ATTORNEY TO CREATE
REASONABLE DOUBT.
IF YOU ARE THE DEFENSE YOU WANT
A UNANIMOUS JURY DECISION TO
ACQUIT.
BUT IF YOU GET ONE JUROR WHO
REFUSES TO CONVICT, YOU HANG THE
JURY.
LOU: I DON'T KNOW THAT I EVER
HEARD OF THIS, THE IDEA THAT A
JUROR CAN SAY TO THE JUDGE, I
HAVE GOT AN EVENT, WE DON'T WANT
TO DELIBERATE OVER THE WEEKEND.
I AM SURE THE JUDGE KNOWS WHAT
THE EVENT IS.
THE JUDGE IS BEING RELAXED BY
THE ALL FOR A GUY WHO IS
BUTTONED DOWN AND FIERY ABOUT
EVERYTHING.
GREGG: YOU DON'T WANT TO PUT
UNDO PRESSURE ON A JURY UNLESS
YOU HAVE TO.
THE JUDGE IS TRYING TO
ACCOMMODATE THESE JURORS.
THEY HAVE LIVES.
AND YES THIS IS AN IMPORTANT
CASE.
LOU: THE LEGAL SYSTEM OFTEN
FORGETS JURORS HAVE LIVES.
GREGG: YOU WANT THEM TO BE
LOU: JUDICIOUS DECISIONS, WOULD
YOU HAVE TO SAY GUILTY OR
INNOCENT.
GREGG: YOU WOULDN'T WANT SOME
GUY TO VOTE TO CONVICT BECAUSE
HE WANTS TO GO TO AN EVENT ON A
FRIDAY NIGHT, WOULD YOU?
LOU: NO, I WOULDN'T.
BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHERE WE
ARE.
HOW DO YOU READ IT?
IS MANAFORT LOOKING BETTER WITH
EACH PASSING DAY?
GREGG: I ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY AS
A DEFENSE TO BE.
THE LONGER THE JURY WAS OUT THE
BETTER SHOT I HAD.
IF THEY COME BACK TOO QUICKLY
IT'S OFTEN NOT GOOD NEWS.
LOU: YOU BELIEVE WHO WILL
PREVAIL.
WE HAVE NEW EVIDENCE NOW.
GREGG: THERE IS NO NEW EVIDENCE.
IT'S A TOUGH CASE FOR THE
DEFENSE TO WIN.
CONVICTIONS, BUT NOT ALL 18.